LA plane for shooting - secondary bevel or not?

[StevieB]

I have finally got round to making a shooting board after ordering a LA Jack. This is the QuangSheng plane from WH so comes with 3 blades - 25, 38 and 50 degrees, with the 25 recommended for shooting. Do you chaps put a secondary bevel on the 25 degree blade for shooting and if so what angle do you use? Anything steeper than 25 degrees will heighten the effective cutting angle surely, giving less of a slicing action....

So far I have simply honed the 25 degree angle using scary sharp and it works well for shooting, but obviously a secondary bevel would be easier to maintain!

Steve

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Go with whatever works for you! Most of my shooting is done with bevel-down planes, so an effective pitch of 45 degrees. It seems to work fine for me, but keeping a sharp edge helps a lot.

Worrying about exact angles is probably over-thinking it. If you use a lower effective pitch and the edge crumbles quickly, try a secondary bevel giving you a higher EP. The lower the pitch, the less the effort in cutting, but the faster the edge will break down. Just find the happy medium that works for your set-up and the timbers you tend to use, and stick with it.

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Steve,

Low is good, but sharp is infinitely more important.

If you want to keep the angle as low as possible and get the benefits of using a secondary I would suggest:

1) Going a couple of degrees lower than 25 when you next grind the primary bevel.

2) Using the ruler trick (a la DavidC) to win back the difference.

3) Using a 5 degree secondary.

Using a ramped shooting board will also help as it sends the shaving up the bevel at an angle - like walking diagonally up a hill rather than tackling it square on.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I have finally got round to making a shooting board after ordering a LA Jack. This is the QuangSheng plane from WH so comes with 3 blades - 25, 38 and 50 degrees, with the 25 recommended for shooting. Do you chaps put a secondary bevel on the 25 degree blade for shooting and if so what angle do you use? Anything steeper than 25 degrees will heighten the effective cutting angle surely, giving less of a slicing action....

So far I have simply honed the 25 degree angle using scary sharp and it works well for shooting, but obviously a secondary bevel would be easier to maintain!

Steve

Steve

I have the LV LA Jack, which was used on the shooting board for many years until I moved to a dedicated shooting plane. I cannot speak for the QuangSheng blades, but a LV A2 blade ground and honed at 25 degrees served me faultlessly - it never chipped and held an edge very well.

I recently reviewed the LV/Veritas Shooting plane (which also has a 12 degree BU configuration) and compared it with a LN #51 (which is BD at 45 degrees). Using a number of different steels, it was clear that the BU configuration places much less stress on the edge than a BD plane. The A2 at 25 degrees on the LA plane far exceeded the BD plane with even a 30 degree bevel.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReview ... Plane.html

The bottom line is that it is most unlikely that you need a secondary bevel on your LA plane and, in fact, you are likely to degrade the performance by increasing the bevel angle.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

I have finally got round to making a shooting board after ordering a LA Jack. This is the QuangSheng plane from WH so comes with 3 blades - 25, 38 and 50 degrees, with the 25 recommended for shooting. Do you chaps put a secondary bevel on the 25 degree blade for shooting and if so what angle do you use? Anything steeper than 25 degrees will heighten the effective cutting angle surely, giving less of a slicing action....

So far I have simply honed the 25 degree angle using scary sharp and it works well for shooting, but obviously a secondary bevel would be easier to maintain!

Steve

Unless you're doing a LOT of shooting, blade sharpening should not be laborious, so I'd use 25 degree, single bevel. I suspect the blade is so thick and short, and the bevel angle so low, that you can easily sharpen freehand, Japanese style, balancing the whole blade on the bevel.

BugBear

 

[StevieB]

Many thanks for the advice, much appreciated. Since it works as is I will continue with the honed 25 degree single bevel. Have to say, it really is a super plane!

Steve

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Can you clarify chaps please, I have several LV LA planes. Are you saying the BU blades should all retain and be honed on the primary angle....OR does this only apply to the shooting aspect?

David

 

[bugbear]

Can you clarify chaps please, I have several LV LA planes. Are you saying the BU blades should all retain and be honed on the primary angle....OR does this only apply to the shooting aspect?

David

Low angle is beneficial for cutting end grain, which is what shooting is about.

(note - your plane is NOT "low angle", it's "bevel up". It's a "all herring are fish" sort of thing).

BugBear

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Can you clarify chaps please, I have several LV LA planes. Are you saying the BU blades should all retain and be honed on the primary angle....OR does this only apply to the shooting aspect?

David

Low angle is beneficial for cutting end grain, which is what shooting is about.

(note - your plane is NOT "low angle", it's "bevel up". It's a "all herring are fish" sort of thing).

BugBear

Bugbear -Ok, got the above, my question was, does the angle on such plane blades need to remain at the primary angle or should a micro bevel be applied to planes other than one used for shooting?

David

 

[bugbear]

Can you clarify chaps please, I have several LV LA planes. Are you saying the BU blades should all retain and be honed on the primary angle....OR does this only apply to the shooting aspect?

David

Low angle is beneficial for cutting end grain, which is what shooting is about.

(note - your plane is NOT "low angle", it's "bevel up". It's a "all herring are fish" sort of thing).

BugBear

Bugbear -Ok, got the above, my question was, does the angle on such plane blades need to remain at the primary angle or should a micro bevel be applied to planes other than one used for shooting?

David

The only thing that matters for performance is the final (or "effective") pitch, where the cutting happens.

E.g. If you decide that you require a 45 degree effective pitch, it doesn't matter (for planing performance) wether that's a 45 degree single bevel or a 40 degree primary with a 5 degree extra secondary.

BugBear

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Ok, thanks very much, makes perfect sense

David

 

[Vann]

Bugbear -Ok, got the above, my question was, does the angle on such plane blades need to remain at the primary angle or should a micro bevel be applied to planes other than one used for shooting?

Adding a micro-bevel increases the effective pitch. For cutting end grain, you want the lowest effective pitch your iron will tolerate - so no microbevel for end grain - unless you experience edge failure at the supplied primary angle.

For any other purpose, a micro-bevel is fine. The primary angles the other irons come with are arbitory at best and a few degrees here or there is nothing. Derek C advocates buying all BU irons at 25 degrees and putting on a micro-bevel appropriate for whatever job you are doing at the time - and that makes a lot of sense to me.

note - your plane is NOT "low angle", it's "bevel up"

Unless I'm mistaken the plane in question has a 12 degree bed - so as I understand it, this plane is BOTH "low angle" and "bevel up".

Cheers, Vann

 

[J_SAMa]

Put on a back bevel :twisted: