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Kity ck26

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PiratePete

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I retired from joinery and making kitchens a year or two ago, but I still have the odd project or two.
I recently bought a ck26 which has seen very little use. I didn't pay a lot for it and it looks good value.
I cleaned up the tiny spindle moulder (30mm fortunately) and it easily machined a couple of rebates so that's working well.
The saw wobbled a bit and when I checked, it was a 16mm bore on a 15mm spindle, a bit blunt too. Aha, I thought, get a decent blade and all will be well.
It isn't.
I seem to have quite a bit of wobble and I'm not sure how to tackle it.
I want to cut very small components for musical instruments and the fit is critical. Power isn't that important as it's mainly sections around 20mm X 12mm but I can't cope with the wobble.
The other annoying thing is the rip fence is an aluminium extrusion and isn't at 90° to the bed.
I haven't looked at the planet yet. That is a joy still to come.
 

powertools

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You will need a dial gauge to find out if it is the new blade, the arbour , the arbour bearings or the arbour washers that are at fault.
 

PiratePete

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I guess you are right. Unfortunately I'm one of the people who can't go out at the moment.
I might strip it down tomorrow. It's very much a bolt together job.
 

powertools

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You say you retired from joinery and making kitchens a year or two ago and makes me a bit shy about trying to help you. I am a retired vehicle mechanic but have owned an old Kity machine that I think may be the same as yours although it seems that many people with these old machines call them many different things.
The table saw on my machine is a 617 and it is a simple machine and should be easy to fix your problems.
Before you strip it down can you feel any play in the arbour bearings? Are you sure that what you think is wobble is not just vibration in the blade? You will need more than 1 blade to do all types of cut.
 

PiratePete

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That's the saw. It has 7217 on it but the manual is for a 617.
I can't detect any play in the bearings but rigging up an improvised gauge, there is definitely some wobble at the edge of the blade. I'm measuring around the position of the gullets.
Just as worrying is the vibration. The whole machine trembles when it's running. It's annoying but not terminal. It didn't happen with the spindle so I might try swapping belts just in case there is flat or hard spot.
 

Lons

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powertools":dz4zxa6w said:
have owned an old Kity machine that I think may be the same as yours although it seems that many people with these old machines call them many different things.
Hi Powertools
The reason people confuse different models is because the old Kity 700 table could be specified with different attachments like a bandsaw so there are several possible versions. The later 704 came as a Direct Drive model and that along with the CK26 which followed is different in that the only choice available was either 4 or 5 function.
Pic showing the 617 saw is older model on the 700 table. The saw was labelled 7217 when installed on an independent table but was still the 617 saw and not unusual for the wrong label on a machine swapped during production
 

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powertools

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The machine that you have shown in the photo with the table saw on it is the exact machine that I own.
I have no doubt that you have a lot of knowledge of Kity machines but I think my knowledge is of older machines that I own and predate a lot of items that you respond to.
The machine I own does not have a specific part number but is often referred to as a K5 or CK26 along with others but is different in many ways.
It was an amazing concept in that you chose to by the large table and then chose what machines you wanted to go on it and buy them over a period of time if you wanted to.
The options were for a table saw or band saw, there were 2 sizes of planer plus several other options that that you could add.
 

Lons

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powertools":293pcp37 said:
The machine that you have shown in the photo with the table saw on it is the exact machine that I own.
I have no doubt that you have a lot of knowledge of Kity machines but I think my knowledge is of older machines that I own and predate a lot of items that you respond to.
The machine I own does not have a specific part number but is often referred to as a K5 or CK26 along with others but is different in many ways.
It was an amazing concept in that you chose to by the large table and then chose what machines you wanted to go on it and buy them over a period of time if you wanted to.
The options were for a table saw or band saw, there were 2 sizes of planer plus several other options that that you could add.
I'm not quite sure if you're trying in a polite way to say I'm wrong Powertools :?

The reason I know quite a lot about the early Kity machines is because in the 80s / early 90s I was branch manager for a company and we sold the full kity range alongside Startrite, DeWalt, Elu and quite a number of leading brands.
People might confuse the names but really should not. The basic principle on which Kity machines were designed is similar but early K5 and derivatives are a very different animal from the CK26 in size, power, intended market and what was available with the basic machine.. As I said and you also posted, the early industrial Kity was available as a base machine to which you could add individual components such as a bandsaw instead of circular, Planer knife grinder and other units.

I repeat, the machine was based on the 700 table and was labelled depending on what was fitted at the factory, it was sold by us in it's usual base format as the Kity 704 and if with the morticer it became a 7042, add the grinder to that and it was a 7044. I can't be certain without checking what it was with the bandsaw but from memory I think was a 7036. It also differed depending which motor was supplied. If a customer bought a base model and added or changed units either at point of sale or later then there was virtually no labelling which is what causes confusion. The French system of identification was always hopeless, a bit like their cars. :)

If I'm wrong then I'd always hold my hands up as I've never professed to being an expert and I have no intention of arguing the point except to say we sold a fair number of machines, I was a hands on manager and have a good memory but I can also back up some of that info as I have some original literature.

I'm happy to send you a pdf copy of the 704 system if it's of interest to you as it seems from what you said you might have the 7044 version.

cheers
Bob

EDIT:
I've been thinking back and I should have said that the machines I referred to were the original concept and therefore MK1 but later in the 80s there consolidated the machine as they found that the vast majority were sold in standard 4 or 5 function mode, e.g. very few were supplied with bandsaws and in fact I can only recall one that we sold from my branch so the MK2 was introduced with straight leg table in base form as 4 function with option to add the morticer, other options such as the grinder, tenoner, drum sander etc. could be bought as accessories The MK 2 was labelled much more sensibly as a K704 mk2. Capacities were saw with a 75mm depth of cut, planer / thicknesser was 260 x150mm, moulder had a standard 30mm shaftand the motor was either 1.5hp single phase or 415 x 3 phase.

While I did visit the factory on one occasion and the rep visited every month our supplies came via Kity UK at Shipley near Bradford.
 

Greenfellers

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Hi,
I have no wish to hijack this thread but; I have over a period of time inherited a collection of the components of a Kity combination machine (saw table, planer / thicknesser, spindle moulder and planer knife grinder, motor and switch and steel stand frame) from my dad who dismantled it to motorise and use each piece individually across two workshops of relatively little space. I had no idea of the lay out until I saw the photos earlier in this thread. Can anyone help with the correct layout of the bolt holes etc. so I can reassemble it? Is 18mm ply a sturdy enough base? Thanks

Andy
 

Lons

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Hi Andy

It would help if you can post some photos ( you may have to make a few posts first ), and ideally the numbers of each individual machine so we know what they came from, I could tell you from that info. Failing that, the capacity of the saw and planer would give a good indication as well as motor size as the K5 is 1 hp and K704 is 1.5hp

As far as the bolt spacing, there is no published detail that I'm aware of but wouldn't be too difficult to work out as the mountings can be slotted to allow adjustment and as long as the pulleys line up it can be done.
If it turns out to be a K5 then I could measure mine or if a K704 series maybe Powertools or another member might be able to measure up. I can also send you a K5 manual and other info if relevant or so info on the larger machine if it's that. I'll pm you my email address if you have problems posting.

18mm ply is plenty stable enough.

cheers
Bob
 

Greenfellers

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OK thanks Bob, I'll gather some pictures and serial numbers.
Now I know what it should look like I guess the spacing can be worked out.
I have it in two places so will need to go climb across my lockup to get to the spindle and planer, may be a day or two.

Thanks,

Andy
 

Lons

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Hi Andy
If it's the larger machines which hopefully they are as they are pretty decent then I can send you the full pdf pages of the original brochure which sets it out fairly clearly. I'll pm my email address so you can let me know if it's of any use in due course.
cheers
Bob
 

Greenfellers

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OK today panned out differently to how I expected and I have images a of the serial no's etc for each component I have. Yes please to a copy of the paperwork Bob, it all helps. I'm guessing this is the bigger unit, my dad made a living from these tools. Not sure where he picked this up from, one of his pals was a tool merchant and sold them at one time in Hastings. I also discovered I have a collection of various belts, guards and some new planer knives plus a mountain of moulder tooling which I need to investigate.

Regards,

Andy
 

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powertools

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To Lons.
I am in no way trying to say you are wrong infact I think it is good how much time you spend trying to help people with these older machines. The point I have been trying to make is that it would not matter if you had been head of design for Kity during the 1980's and 90' without knowing exactly what machines people are asking about it is impossible to give sound advice. I think that the post from Greenfellow proves that point.



To Greenfellows.
You have the makings of a nice combo machine there and is well worth the effort to take it back to orignal. The fact that you have got tooling for the spindle moulder is a bonus.
 

Lons

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No issues from my point of view Powertools I certainly hadn't taken umbrage at anything life is too short for that and we're both trying to help others.
The offer stands if you want it as that old brochure is quite interesting, it was my personal copy back in the days as they weren't easy to get hold of.
cheers
Bob
 

Lons

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Hi Andy

You have the components of the larger machine so pretty decent, you're a lucky lad. That was the base K704 plus the grinder 642, I didn't notice a slot morticer so if you don't have that it is classed as the 4 function version. The only item I'm not sure about is the motor as the model number doesn't match, it is however dated 1984 so I assume the whole combi is likely to that year as well.

I'll send you the info I have if you email me to the address I pm'd, I also have a seperate inst manual for the 617 saw but not the other machines, someone on here might be able to offer those although Kity manuals weren't the best.
 

Greenfellers

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Hi Bob,
No, no slot morticer, I do have a freestanding one.
I may also have some parts for a sliding table on the saw also, not sure til I pull it all into one place. As I said Dad made a living from these so unlikely to have been lightweight. OK worth cleaning servicing and rebuilding, which is good. I also have a Kity 613 Bandsaw, may as well keep it all the same brand.

Thank you for your help,

Andy
 

Lons

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No probs Andy just sent it.

I'll always help if I can but it's just from memory with the larger machines as I didn't own the big combi, I did a few demos of them but that was a long time ago so specific queries are likely to get a response from some of the other guys if you post on the forum.
As Powertools said, there is confusion around model numbers so best I suggest to just label your query under Kity machine.
You'll probably enjoy sorting the machine out. :)
 

PiratePete

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Right, I've put up with the slight wobble for a while but I've decided to tackle it.
I've stripped down the spindle and popped it in the lathe to check straightness. It's definitely bent.
I've got one bearing off, but cannot get the Allen key loosened that holds the (flat) belt pulley, and consequently can't remove the old bearing. Any ideas? LH thread?
Once it's off I can work out whether to try to straighten it or see if I can find a machinist to make another. (My skills aren't up to it)
 

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