Kitchen knives advice

[misterfish]

Has anyone any advice on decent kitchen knives - we have a mish mash of old ones which dont seem to keep a sharp edge despite using wooden or 'plastic' cutting boards.

We do like the look of the Japanese folded steel blades but a quick perusal seems to give a wide range of prices.

Also what is the best way to keep a keen edge on kitchen knives - we have an American pull through sharpener (recommended on America's Test kitchen) and a small steel block that came from Lakeland a few years ago but neither seem to give a lasting keen edge.

So any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated - and we're not necessarily looking for cheap but good quality that will last and serve us well.

Misterfish

 

[Baldhead]

My wife bought a cheap set of knives several years ago, they came with their own steel for sharpening, they were so blunt you could run the cutting edge over your wrist and not leave a mark!!! I sharpened them all with the steel and every time I use one I always use the steel first, just like a chef or butcher would do, they are really good knives and are at least 15 years old and I can gaurantee they cost very little (they actually came in a blown plastic case)
We also have a 'quality' carving knife which has its own pull type sharpener but I dont rate it as good as the cheapies.

Baldhead

 

[bugbear]

I have had nothing but joy from a Japanese Tojiro DP Santoku, sharpened on a King 1000/6000 waterstone.

http://www.nipponkitchen.com/acatalog/T ... Range.html

I always thought I knew how to sharpen knives, and have some nice german cooks knives (Wusthof, Zwilling Henckels),
but the Tojiro cost less, and cut many times better.

BugBear

 

[Jamie Copeland]

Hi

I was a chef in a previous life and have always loved Global knives. They are solid Japanese steel, very comfortable and keep their sharp edge. They are expensive but see them as an investment because with the right care and general use they will last you a lifetime.

As for sharpening, you simply buy a bog standard diamond steel and use it on whichever knife you happen to be using before you use the knife. Don't go crazy with the steel, little and often is the secret.

Jamie

 

[woodpig]

These are very good and hold an edge forever.

http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/product ... -Knife.htm

Looks like a chopper (but slimmer) but it's used in the normal slicing manner for veg prep.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

+1 for global....thats what I use literally daily. I have 5 in total but the chefs knife is my go to knife. I've been round the mill a bit sharpening them. About once a year I give them a very gentle tickle on the Tormek with everything trued using the silicon Blackstone wheel and then in the kitchen I use a ceramic steel just before each use. I had previously used a regular steel (despite globals advice) and it eventually folded the edge over necessitating another Tormek tickle.

The ceramic steel is superb though and you have to sharpen at slightly greater tan the primary bevel so it actually delivers a tiny micro bevel. The action is also important....its just a gentle kiss down each side....about 4-6 passes and that's it. You almost cant believe its done anything but stick it through a tomato and you'll soon see

 

[orchard]

I have had nothing but joy from a Japanese Torjiro DP Santoku, sharpened on a King 1000/6000 waterstone.

http://www.nipponkitchen.com/acatalog/T ... Range.html

I always thought I knew how to sharpen knives, and have some nice german cooks knives (Wusthof, Zwilling Henckels),
but the Tojiro cost less, and cut many times better.

BugBear

This really. Depends on your budget really. Don't shy away from Victorinox if these, Mac, Gustav, etc., are beyond your budget, they offer great value.
As a former pro, I didn't like the top end Global (have 2or 3 quality lines), preferring other Japanese and German

 

[paulm]

These are very good http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/ct/kai-shun.htm

I have a few and love them, very light and scalpel sharp, the VG10 core steel holds the edge for absolutely ages. A couple of light strokes on the ceramic steel very occasionally is all I've needed to do so far.

If I was looking to spend less then would likely go for the Victorinox range, no nonsense blades and handles that take a good edge and can be chucked in the dishwasher, easy to sharpen with diamond and ceramic steels, or a traditional steel will help realign the edge okay for a while.

Cheers, Paul

 

[Phil Pascoe]

J. A. Henckels or Wusthof. Many of the Japanese are superb, but I don't like Global - I find the handles uncomfortable. I was given a small Robert Welch from Lakeland that is beautiful.

 

[bugbear]

These are very good http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/ct/kai-shun.htm

I have a few and love them, very light and scalpel sharp, the VG10 core steel holds the edge for absolutely ages. A couple of light strokes on the ceramic steel very occasionally is all I've needed to do so far.

If I was looking to spend less then would likely go for the Victorinox range, no nonsense blades and handles that take a good edge and can be chucked in the dishwasher, easy to sharpen with diamond and ceramic steels, or a traditional steel will help realign the edge okay for a while.

Cheers, Paul

The cheap(ish) Tojiro I showed is also VG10.

ETA:
A lot of cooks "just" use Victorinox. Great steel, no frills. Look behind the counter at a deli or butchers.

Since this is a woodwork forum, here's the rosewood handle version (8", my favourite size)

http://www.nisbets.co.uk/Victorinox-Woo ... il.raction

(much) Cheaper with plastic handle:

Wide blade:

http://www.nisbets.co.uk/Victorinox-Wid ... il.raction

Normal blade (1/2" longer)

http://www.nisbets.co.uk/Victorinox-Che ... il.raction

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

I was given a small Robert Welch from Lakeland that is beautiful.

I know nothing of the steel or grind of those, but I've handled them, and the ergonomics are wondrous.

BugBear

 

[misterfish]

Thanks for the suggestions so far, please keep them coming.

SWMBO quite likes the sound of the Global (being able to put them in the dishwasher!) but the sheer beauty of some of the folded steel Japanese type takes some beating but obviously needs more care.

Misterfish

 

[bugbear]

Thanks for the suggestions so far, please keep them coming.

SWMBO quite likes the sound of the Global (being able to put them in the dishwasher!) but the sheer beauty of some of the folded steel Japanese type takes some beating but obviously needs more care.

Misterfish

Since a knife needs a uniform clean edge to cut well, the Damascus ones that look so nice have the same range of cutting cores as the simple "clad" types. I own both clad and damascus japanese knives.

PM me for as much detail as you can handle.

BugBear

 

[Steve Maskery]

Japanese ones which I love. I can't remember the name, but the company which sells them is based in Lewes, IIRC.
I don't sharpen them as often as I should.

On the side, did anyone watch the knife-maker showcased on this week's Food and Drink? Nice feature.

S

 

[lanemaux]

My wife and I disagree a lot on this subject. She was a pro chef with skills , I am a rank amateur who likes to eat. She is 100 percent a Global person and has a portfolio case full. I like sharp things and still have a largish number. My knives come from many sources , but the one I want to mention is Sabatier that were gotten from Lee Valley some years ago. I don't know if they still stock the ones I got , but they were rescued from an old warehouse and are a hundred or so years old and rehandled (not very well and in plastic). I love them and have modified or rehandled all three. Total cost would convert to around 30 pounds. These are my knives, does this mean I get to use them? Those are the only 3 non Global knives in the portfolio case. Take from this what you will.

 

[Jamie Copeland]

Thanks for the suggestions so far, please keep them coming.

SWMBO quite likes the sound of the Global (being able to put them in the dishwasher!) but the sheer beauty of some of the folded steel Japanese type takes some beating but obviously needs more care.

Misterfish

Just a word of caution. Any knife can warp in a dishwasher due to the sustained high temperature.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Wooden handles might, but I can't see steel being permanently twisted by boiling water.

 

[Jamie Copeland]

Wooden handles might, but I can't see steel being permanently twisted by boiling water.

That warning comes on any global knife you buy. I personally wash mine in the dishwasher.

 

[bugbear]

On the side, did anyone watch the knife-maker showcased on this week's Food and Drink? Nice feature.

S

Yeah - I tried to find out more. Turns out he's done interviews and features with the Guardian, Telegraph, Times and Huffpost, as well as lots of small sites.

But I can't find a single review of his knives.

Ex web designer, go figure.

Ben Edmonds, "Blok" knives. He even appeared as a "Character" in an advertising campaign.

http://www.lambsnavyrum.com/true-britis ... n-edmonds/

"produce some of the finest knives the world has ever seen".

I don't think so.

BugBear

 

[Kalimna]

I am far, far from being a chef, but I do like my knives, and a fair collection I have. The Kai Shun handled are a slightly offset asymmetric oval that I find very comfortable to hold, and whilst stay nicely sharp, I don't find they hold the keenest of edges, nor are they as easy to sharpen (I do all my sharpening on waterstones, going up to a 12000 King sometimes) as some of my other knives.

I have tried Global, and don't find the handle (or the completely metal body) to my liking at all - but that is a personal preference and you might find the opposite.

My go-to knife is a 7" gyoto (general purpose kitchen knife) in the following range
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SHIKI ... KITsuchime
Easy to sharpen to a very fine edge, holds the edge well, and I find the thinner blade more useful for slicing than the Kai. I would also heartily recommend that website and service from them, for sheer selection if nothing else).

Two of the handmade knives I have are the following (gyuto Murata, nakiri Tanaka), both exquisite to use and easy to scalpel-edge sharpen. Admittedly, neither cheap - the Tanaka was a fair bit cheaper when I bought it!

http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/murata-collection
http://www.kinknives.com/tanaka-knives/ ... mm-48.aspx

My overall preference is for the japanese knives, primarily for their delicacy. I have used some Henckels 5 star blades, which are very nice indeed but much heftier of blade. An aesthetic choice.

As to washing in a dishwasher - maybe fine for Global, but sacrilege to most high end knives. I can't see how the metal would warp at dishwasher temperatures, but damage to a wooden handle aside, the caustic cleaning agents wreak havoc with the knife edge through pitting and general bashing around as the cycle completes. There are some steels (such as the Murata above, and other handmade japanese blades) which rust easily and would not tolerate life in a dishwasher.

Cheers,
Adam S