RobinBHM
Established Member
It’s the same false argument people use when they say “If you care so much about refugees why don’t you house some”
the fact is government action is needed for change, invididuals can’t do much on their own.
Khan's ULEZ scam >road charging
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the fact is government action is needed for change, invididuals can’t do much on their own.
Keith Cocker
Established Member
But surely you would agree that individuals should do all they can? Government action is needed big time but with Tories or Labour we will wait a long time.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Has anyone here tried to offer accommodation to refugees? Our neighbour has, and the powers that be were actively obstructive.
Agent_zed
Established Member
They should but they are also subject to misinformation, lack of understanding, economic pressures etc. I can't count the amount of times I've seen comments on articles in the winter about a big snowfall in the uk stating that climate change is a hoax because 'they were told it was getting hotter'. This is a complete misunderstanding of climate change and how it will affect the UK.
There is only so much personal change you can make when all the houses being built by major companies are doing the absolute bare minimum. Very few people have the opportunity to build their own house and specify an increase in insulation. This leads to having to retrofit, which is difficult and time consuming and far more energy intensive than doing it when they are building it to start with.
Lidl built a brand new store in our town a year or two back. No solar panels!!! why? It is literally the best example of when you should use solar. The store requires energy all through the day with freezers, fridges, servers, lighting, AC etc
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Next door had a whole family for a year. Worked out well, much to everybody's relief! Kids learnt english really quickly and did OK at school.
They went off to visit fellow Ukrainians in Germany and discovered that the German powers are much more supportive of refugees, with housing and other assistance, so they are off there for good. Happy ending so far.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
There is almost no policy at all. We should be on a "war" footing by now. Landowners shouldn't be getting massive payouts for hosting wind turbines for starters. It's an emergency - and developing faster than the forecasts.
naughtymoose
Established Member
I've found this thread to be quite thought-provoking (which is good!) and I think Agent Zed has nailed one of the biggest issues here, namely that of misinformation colouring Joe Public's knowledge and therefore understanding of the climate crisis.
There are plenty of useful sources of information on the internet, and I have found this one to be particularly good.
https://www.nrdc.org/stories/what-are-effects-climate-change#weather
There are plenty of useful sources of information on the internet, and I have found this one to be particularly good.
https://www.nrdc.org/stories/what-are-effects-climate-change#weather
RobinBHM
Established Member
I fully agree, yes we should do what we can, if public opinion leads, the politicians will have to catch up
but ultimately there is little individuals can do.
Sadly the fossil fuel industry has plenty of money to fuel propaganda and TBH most people don’t like the thought of having to make changes so are easily pursuaded
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I've mentioned this before, but a lot of the same names crop up if you look at the PR companies involved in tobacco propaganda and fossil fuel hype.
All part of " Lies R Us"
You also read about the problems people have had and not continued with housing them. Some will be cultural differences, others just taking advantage of good British hospitality but it has not all gone as planed. A few relationships have been wrecked when the man of the house takes off with the Ukrainian women and there have been cases of financial loss.
It requires a complete re write of the building regs and the only way to make a house fit for the future is from the ground up, as said retrofitting insulation is just nothing more than sticking a plaster on something that really needed stitches. The first issue is that our current housing is nothing more than building battery farms for humans, high density with little space and shoddy standards that only delivers for the shareholders, it is time to stop building houses and start building homes otherwise we will just end up with 21st century slums. It is not hard to build homes that only require minimal energy to keep warm, harvest rainwater for toilets and use a communal heating system to reduce cost but that is not in the interest of the property developers. I have seen a housing estate where some of the houses have two large electricity pylons just fifty foot away and with the substation for company so I dare say some brown envelopes exchanged hands somewhere.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Very gloomy opinion, as ever! There are good stories too, with happy endings.
There have also been more than a just a few cases where the man seemed to think that offering a roof was a way to get 24 hr available sex from the Ukrainian woman ( with or without her kids ) ..or those who decided that the Ukrainian(s) they were housing should pay all the bills, plus rent, plus food, and "lay down" when required.
No where near enough investigation as to if the proposed "host" was a "fit person"..even some registered sex offenders were accepted as "hosts".
Nowhere near enough "follow ups" from the UK govt to see that the refugees security was really being taken care of.And appalling lack of organisation, which led to many perfectly honest "hosts" not knowing if they could continue. I've spoken to some Ukrainians who left the UK to come here ( either to stay or on their way to other countries ) many said they were very disappointed with the reality of the UK "welcome".
So how many good stories make one bad one acceptable ? For anyone making the decision on whether to host or not they must be given all the information and not just the good stuff so as to weigh up the pro's and cons.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Individuals tend to make personally rational choices. These frequently conflict with that which is best for the community as a whole. An example - have a family despite risks of over-population.
Some folk willingly modify their behaviours to minimise their impact on the environment, others either don't think it necessary, or circumstances inhibit the choices they make. They tend to get dogmatic over personal choices, despite being infinitely impacted by money, beliefs, etc.
Expecting folk to somehow all do the "right thing" is naive. Consistent meaningful action will happen only if underpinned by government decree. Sadly governments are more concerned with their immediate electoral prospects than doing that which is necessary but unpopular.
Change will not come easily - I am personally doubtful that politicians and the public will be generally energised until the issues become abundantly clear.
An example - we have enjoyed a few weeks of unseasonably warm and sunny weather. Is it evidence of a changing climate requiring urgent action, an unexpected Mediterranean interlude (bring it on), or simply thar weather is inherently variable.
I suspect a complete spectrum of views amongst a wider public whose support for radical action will only be forthcoming when more extreme events emerge - eg: drought for three years in a row, low lying cities flooded (including London in winter etc.
Some folk willingly modify their behaviours to minimise their impact on the environment, others either don't think it necessary, or circumstances inhibit the choices they make. They tend to get dogmatic over personal choices, despite being infinitely impacted by money, beliefs, etc.
Expecting folk to somehow all do the "right thing" is naive. Consistent meaningful action will happen only if underpinned by government decree. Sadly governments are more concerned with their immediate electoral prospects than doing that which is necessary but unpopular.
Change will not come easily - I am personally doubtful that politicians and the public will be generally energised until the issues become abundantly clear.
An example - we have enjoyed a few weeks of unseasonably warm and sunny weather. Is it evidence of a changing climate requiring urgent action, an unexpected Mediterranean interlude (bring it on), or simply thar weather is inherently variable.
I suspect a complete spectrum of views amongst a wider public whose support for radical action will only be forthcoming when more extreme events emerge - eg: drought for three years in a row, low lying cities flooded (including London in winter etc.
Abundantly clear is also way to late. If we cannot resolve current issues that impact UK daily living then what hope to affect global enviromental issues, I can see the politicians looking in disbelief when they see the Thames laping over their feet in years to come and wishing todays politicians had done more but then so many will just be hedging their bets in that it will not happen in their lifetime. It is amazing to think of the investment happening in London when we all know it is on borrowed time and cannot be protected from the rising sea so why not start think about that now rather than in some mad panic later.
Cobalt is used in lots of things, includes ICE vehicles, so yes, let’s ban then.
as has been pointed out, London has, compared to the rest of the UK, a first class public transport system. No one seems to object to the congestion charge these days so eventually ULEZ will become acceptable as well.
Maybe we can also accept that the car isn’t king and get on with making something beautiful out of a lump of wood. Me, mainly shavings and dust
as has been pointed out, London has, compared to the rest of the UK, a first class public transport system. No one seems to object to the congestion charge these days so eventually ULEZ will become acceptable as well.
Maybe we can also accept that the car isn’t king and get on with making something beautiful out of a lump of wood. Me, mainly shavings and dust
Agent_zed
Established Member
Taking it back to cars, I think where the change needs to be is what we perceive as a car. We've all got used to 1+ton vehicles with bigger and bigger engines. I don't think electric cars in their current offering are the answer as they come with just as many env problems but if we think slightly outside our comfort zone I think there is something that could be even better.
I'm not saying the twizy is the answer to everything but using it as a visual example. Imagine if you commute into a big city and overnight all the cars with single occupancy changed to a twizy size electric car covered in solar panels so that most days it can do the 10mile commute with no additional charging. Traffic would flow so much better, physical length of traffic would be a fraction of what it is now, air would be cleaner, you'd have no problem finding a parking space, passing cyclists wouldn't be a hassle, emergency vehicles could pass through any traffic with relative ease. Surely that would be amazing wouldn't it? How could you not want that?
It's not without any env issues but with tyres and brakes a fraction of the size the pollution from these would be tiny compared with a 'normal' car. The batteries would be a 10th of a huge tesla and overall the amount of materials needed is much smaller.
The alternative is what we have now. Big vehicles all cramming into streets never designed to take such volumes or sized vehicles, pumping pollution into the air we breathe and rivers we take water from for drinking.
We don't have to go back to the dark ages, this is just what people say who don't want anything to change. things change, they always will.
I can give you a very real reason why this won't happen in a hurry though and that is oil and car manufacturers! Big oil is not going to let car manufacturers make solar powered micro cars that require small amounts of oil to exist, when they can keep demand high for huge suvs. Take a look at the EV1 from GM back in the 90's, it worked. But that was the problem It worked too well and GM had to get rid of it, literally overnight. If they had continued they would have been world leaders by now. But I would put money on executive meetings with big oil happening and deals being made.
It makes me so frustrated that so many innovations and changes for good could happen but are prevented by the few who want to retain their wealth at all costs.
I'm not saying the twizy is the answer to everything but using it as a visual example. Imagine if you commute into a big city and overnight all the cars with single occupancy changed to a twizy size electric car covered in solar panels so that most days it can do the 10mile commute with no additional charging. Traffic would flow so much better, physical length of traffic would be a fraction of what it is now, air would be cleaner, you'd have no problem finding a parking space, passing cyclists wouldn't be a hassle, emergency vehicles could pass through any traffic with relative ease. Surely that would be amazing wouldn't it? How could you not want that?
It's not without any env issues but with tyres and brakes a fraction of the size the pollution from these would be tiny compared with a 'normal' car. The batteries would be a 10th of a huge tesla and overall the amount of materials needed is much smaller.
The alternative is what we have now. Big vehicles all cramming into streets never designed to take such volumes or sized vehicles, pumping pollution into the air we breathe and rivers we take water from for drinking.
We don't have to go back to the dark ages, this is just what people say who don't want anything to change. things change, they always will.
I can give you a very real reason why this won't happen in a hurry though and that is oil and car manufacturers! Big oil is not going to let car manufacturers make solar powered micro cars that require small amounts of oil to exist, when they can keep demand high for huge suvs. Take a look at the EV1 from GM back in the 90's, it worked. But that was the problem It worked too well and GM had to get rid of it, literally overnight. If they had continued they would have been world leaders by now. But I would put money on executive meetings with big oil happening and deals being made.
It makes me so frustrated that so many innovations and changes for good could happen but are prevented by the few who want to retain their wealth at all costs.
Homeless Squirrel
Established Member
Just a little Nugget of info for those living tucked away in their insulated world away from reality!
Shell and BP where do you think they made a lot of profit on?.......................................................................Renewables as they have invested millions in the Renewables industry.
Shell and BP where do you think they made a lot of profit on?.......................................................................Renewables as they have invested millions in the Renewables industry.
You have shares in them...? Curious why you'd mention them.."out of the blue"..yours is the only mention of them in this thread AFAIR.
Many people here ( including I'm pretty certain all those arguing for more ecological efforts ) knew that they had invested in Renewables..Maybe it was news to you ? So have Saudi Arabia..( and other Gulf States ) ..on a far greater scale..I don't have shares in Saudi Arabia ;-)
ps..that is very like a serial poisoner after knowingly creating billions of victims, whilst all the while denying what they were doing, saying,,, "but look, I'm investing in antidotes now, so forget what I did in the past"..
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