Ken Robinson says schools kill creativity

[Cheshirechappie]

,,,,,,,
It doesn't much matter how good children are in other spheres if they can't read, write and add up.

Nonsense - it obviously matters even more if they can't read, write and add up, even if it's just bloody woodwork!
Self evident really. Nothing political, ideological or theoretical about it.

If I interpret Jacob's answer correctly, it may mean we have found some common ground. The first aim of education must be to get the foundations in place - reading, writing and maths.

Perhaps then go on to broaden horizons with the basics of sciences (we live in a very science and technology driven world) and humanities, including religious education, history and geography (a basic knowledge of how the country came to be as it is, and how it fits into the rest of the world seems an important part of education). It also makes some sense to introduce some variety in the form of music, art, drama, making things (call this what you will), and sport, competitive and just as general exercise.

That, with luck, should give everyone a chance to try different things and see what they're good at and what fires their imagination, and what doesn't. It should also give everyone the basic grounding on which to build in whatever direction their life takes them, and perhaps help them decide what that direction should be. Given that there is only a finite amount of teaching time available, I think that's probably asking enough of the primary and secondary education, and of teachers.

 

[Jacob]

,,,,,,,
It doesn't much matter how good children are in other spheres if they can't read, write and add up.

Nonsense - it obviously matters even more if they can't read, write and add up, even if it's just bloody woodwork!
Self evident really. Nothing political, ideological or theoretical about it.

If I interpret Jacob's answer correctly, it may mean we have found some common ground. The first aim of education must be to get the foundations in place - reading, writing and maths.........

Hmm not sure about the common ground!
Foundations are broader than 3Rs, important though they are. But for those that find the Rs difficult other areas such as the arts/creativity become more important. Not that it's either/or - they are important for all.

 

[Dusty]

My personal feeling on this is that , there is not enough choice and available time .

As I said earlier , I came out of school with two gcse's grade C and the rest d,e,f's . I was not accademic and I knew that but had not choice . We had to do the set curriculum and had to choose one 2 out of 5 subjects to fill the rest . I did not leave school with enough grades to follow my choice pursuit ( joinery ) . I ended up labouring and working up the ladder .

If I put this in to a subject close to all our hearts ( wood work ) . I knew what I wanted to pursue joinery and couldnt but what if I could of chosen more practical subjects I may have come out better and got the apprenticeship I wanted .

Complusory ......
English language
English Literature
Maths
Sciene --all four
French
german
history or geography
religous education ......unless you were a jahova ......as they did not have to attend , dead true as we had 2 at out school
drama or art or cooking
sports

Optional.....

design tech
design realisation
design studies

not really a fair basis for the non academic

but on the flip side , my partners step dad could not read or write for anything , properly dislexic . but he is a very succesful metal sculpturer / artist . and just goes to prove , grades do not mean everything !

I imagine we all have our opinions and yes the 3 R's are important but not the rest of the force fed subjects . I personaly have not spoken french or german since ( not out of ignorance ) and sure as hell was not going to become a buddy actor !

Kind regards Sam

 

[Racers]

Interesting debate. Personally I lean more towards Cheshire Chappie's view than Jacob's (though that is not to say Jacob is completely wrong - IMHO!).


Again using my own (very out of date) schooling experience:
When I was at Secondary Modern school EVERYONE was expected to be able to read, write, plus do arithmetic to at least a basic standard. And it was rare that kids leaving school then did not reach that basic standard. I understand that this is far from the norm in UK these days.



And look at the standard of work often displayed here on this site. That's clearly the "creative" side, but surely Jacob, those craftsmen and tradesmen wouldn't last too long "just" making such wonderful stuff if they couldn't also at least add, subtract, multiply, and divide plus "advertise" their work in some way, would they? Especially so the self-employed?

Jacob you say that there are people who suffer from Dyslexia, and I'm sure you're right. BUT isn't this "disease" (which was I think unknown - or at least not in common currency) when I was at school, just too much of any easy excuse for schoolkids - and parents - to be lazy in this area? I think I'm right in saying that after I left school, it was an educational fashion at one stage to let kids get away without bothering too much about spelling at all.

But in my view if parents did as mine did and read to me every night when I was really young and then went on to encourage reading to myself in all sorts of books and magazines as I was starting school and growing older, isn't it true that most kids (apart form the probably very few cases of genuine Dyslexia) will actually pick up correct spelling almost by osmosis? I think that's what happened to me, AND millions of others like me/my parents. That in turn gave my schoolteachers a good foundation to work on for the basics, AND gave them more time to spend more time on "other stuff" such as Woodwork, Metalwork, Art, Music, Drawing, whatever.


Krgds
AES

Hi, AES

Your view of Dyslexia is wrong, I am suffer of this "disease" and I am 54 so it has been around for years, not diagnosed but there (its actually a problem of how your brain is wired up) its naïve of you just to put it down to lazy kids/parents, you have no idea of the number affected.You need to research theses things before you give out your opinion.
I was branded as thick at school and wasn't even entered for the English exam, I guess they didn't want me pulling the average down.
Dyslexia it a problem that affects me every day and it is very difficult to live with, it doesn't help when peoples attitude is that you are thick or lazy.

Pete

I made about 20 spelling mistakes in that post, just to give you a clue of how difficult things are.

 

[AES]

@Racers:

I apologise if I have offended you Sir, that was NOT my intention.

Please note that I did NOT say that Dyslexia does not/did not exist, what I said was that I suspect that it is PROBABLY a convenient excuse in many cases - please note that does also clearly mean NOT in ALL cases.

And that opinion IS/WAS based on something I just happened to read or heard about a year or so ago - I can't remember exactly what it was or where I heard it/read it but seem to remember that it was some sort of scientific study and was probably broadcast on BBC Radior 4 or World Service.

I do understand your view, particularly as you are a sufferer, but please do check exactly what I wrote before you jump down my throat when I was quite careful to post what was after all only an opinion held by someone - me - who is completely unqualified in that area.

With sincere best wishes and once again, my apologies for any offence I inadvertently caused you or any other sufferers.

Krgds
AES

 

[Jacob]

....
Please note that I did NOT say that Dyslexia does not/did not exist, what I said was that I suspect that it is PROBABLY a convenient excuse in many cases - .....

Just another miserable little moan and undoubtedly wrong!!
My son is dyslexic. Didn't stop him getting an upper second and an MA in, guess what; MEDIA STUDIES :roll: which has kept him fully employed without a break. In Japan at the moment for some media related thing. Very dependent on computer spell checker.
Coincidentally my daughter has an MA in, guess what; Fine Art :roll: is also fully employed and is in Berlin as we speak, setting up an exhibition of her work. Not dyslexic though.

So get yer crayons out dull boys!!

PS My mother was a specialist in teaching dyslexics so I got to know a bit about it.

I think I'm right in saying that after I left school, it was an educational fashion at one stage to let kids get away without bothering too much about spelling at all.

Complete bo|lox.

 

[WandrinAndy]

I enjoy Sir Ken's talks. Even though this one is kind of similar to the earlier one.................. Use it or lose it.........

http://www.ted.com/talks/sir_ken_robins ... ution.html