Karl Holtey
- Thread starter Harbo
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Seems a shame he didn't develop talent who could continue the business after his retirement with him still somewhat active on an 'of-counsel' basis.
Cheshirechappie
Established Member
I too wish Karl a happy retirement. I think he's contributed a lot to woodworking, one way and another (A2 steel for one!). I could never afford one of his masterpieces, but it's good to know that there are people like Karl prepared to take craftsmanship to new heights, and that there are people prepared to allow him free rein by buying his planes. Nothing advances by just doing the same thing our predecessors did.
CStanford":1tuv1211 said:
Maybe he just wants to enjoy his retirement, without worrying about rent, bills and his reputation.
He is the business, client base / orders might drop off once if it was revealed these aren't 100% Holtey made anymore.
Big danger of training someone up and then they go solo.
He has a fair few quid tied up in machinery, should pay for few world cruises.
Good luck to him.
True. Good points.
lurker
Le dullard de la commune
CStanford":20sc9f6i said:
Maybe you are leaping to conclusions!
I used to live in the far north where he is based and he did quite a lot to try to publicise how high level skills low volume was a way forward for the region.
Locally he is well liked and has helped many aspiring engineer on their way.
If you look at his website you will how generous he is illustrating his methods which must have inspired many all over the world.
Racers
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After a while you notice some people just write negative stuff, I don't usually see it as I have them on my ignore list but other people quote them and I am forced to read it.
Karl has a fantastic blog and he did help a bloke I can't remember his name Ian I think, to make a copy of his plane so he has contributed a fantastic amount of information about plane making etc, and some body deems it necessary to do him down for some imagined reason....
Pete
Karl has a fantastic blog and he did help a bloke I can't remember his name Ian I think, to make a copy of his plane so he has contributed a fantastic amount of information about plane making etc, and some body deems it necessary to do him down for some imagined reason....
Pete
iNewbie
Established Member
I could never afford one of his planes although I admire his skill-set.
Rhossydd
Established Member
Maybe you've missed the sentiment of the message by not reading it all ?Racers":1vl9q73b said:
I read it as; it was a pity that he hadn't been able to get someone to continue his business of extreme high quality plane making.
I'd have to agree that it will be a pity if all his knowledge and experience will just be lost to tool making in future.
I would think of Karl more as an artist. And while an artist may not train an apprentice, their work often does live on in the work of many other artists. Karl already has had a huge impact on toolmakers of every description, let alone the especially peculiar (I say that fondly) folks who continue to make hand planes. It will be interesting to see what sort of reaction his announced retirement provokes, as it will also say much about the world of hand tools as a whole.
Rhossydd
Established Member
I doubt it will register on most woodworkers at all. They are just such a niche product.John K":3nk661uf said:
His products looked wonderful and reportedly worked as well as they looked, but with a total production of less than a thousand they have little significance in the real world of woodworking.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Rhossydd":2tgsw437 said:
Karl's contribution goes beyond the product he offered for sale. This was minuscule in comparison to his influence on other planemakers - motivation, construction methods (for example, dowels as well as dovetails), design (both BU and BD), manufacturing technique, validation, education, and setting the bar. Boy did he set the bar high!
He also contributed tool steel such as A2. There may be others (PM?).
Karl Holtey will live on in the same way that Spier and Norris came to epitomise infill planes.
Regards from Perth
Derek
lurker
Le dullard de la commune
Rhossydd":3dtwy0mv said:
Clearly you have little idea how remote Lairg is.
The chances of finding someone locally with the inclination are pretty slim
Anyway without the "name" I doubt there would be a living to be made.
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
I suppose you need to define locally. I'm sure if Holtey had let it be known a year or so in advance and that he was willing to be an atellier then he would have had people coming to him to apprentice
Rhossydd
Established Member
Don't be silly, it's just another town in Northern Scotland. In the 21st century it's no great big deal to be away from the major conurbations when most of your clients are hundreds or thousands of miles away.lurker":2ybhekyo said:
The real question is not if there's someone local to train, but if there's a will to try to continue the venture. If there was, and it's as significant as Derek says, someone would probably be prepared to move there to perpetuate the business. The prices commanded would ensure it could be worthwhile.
Not necessarily, many other high end businesses carry on even after their founders hand over the reigns to their designated successors. Ever heard of Rolls Royce or Fabergé ?
bugbear
Established Member
Rhossydd":10i5poag said:
Karl's influence is indirect. He influences tool designers, tool makers and especially plane makers (obviously).
It's a bit like formula one - no one in the real world drives a formula one car, but the ideas filter through.
BugBear
Corneel
Established Member
I posted this on sawmillcreek. 1 reply in two days time. Indeed it seems that no one is interested anymore. And he used to be such a hotly debated figure in the past.
The man's a legend. No doubt about that.
The man's a legend. No doubt about that.
lurker
Le dullard de la commune
Rhossydd":1xpp3oy9 said:
Well you are certainly not the first person to suggest I’m silly, maybe I did not express the point I was trying to make, Say someone had been interested in being Karl’s apprentice would they be prepared to live is what is essentially a large village two hours’ drive (petrol is at least 20% more expensive up there) to the nearest town, Inverness.
If you are sick and need more than a GP it’s a car or Ambulance journey to Inverness, this was the main reason I decided not to retire there. I used to travel 600 miles south if I needed dental treatment as it is impossible to get on any dentists list.
The map is deceptive, 30 miles down your way is maybe 30 min on a dual carriageway. Up north even the A roads can be single track with passing places. The road from Perth to Thurso (200 miles and 4 hours if you are very lucky) has the largest death toll in the country.
How was he going to attract a young man up there? Add to that, until recently, anyone for 300 miles around with an inclination toward engineering, got a job on the rigs and earned a shedload.
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
lurker wrote - Well you are certainly not the first person to suggest I’m silly, maybe I did not express the point I was trying to make, Say someone had been interested in being Karl’s apprentice would they be prepared to live is what is essentially a large village two hours’ drive (petrol is at least 20% more expensive up there) to the nearest town, Inverness.
In response to this I would have to say in all likelyhood - AYE
A friend of mine who is a master swordmaker/armnourer advertised for an apprentice last year and received over 1500 applicants. The lad who was chosen is actually trvelling over 3000 miles in order to apprentice and will arrive later this month for the start of what will be a 4 year apprenticeship. this is all being done with no grants etc but because Pauil feels the skills of his trade should not die out
In response to this I would have to say in all likelyhood - AYE
A friend of mine who is a master swordmaker/armnourer advertised for an apprentice last year and received over 1500 applicants. The lad who was chosen is actually trvelling over 3000 miles in order to apprentice and will arrive later this month for the start of what will be a 4 year apprenticeship. this is all being done with no grants etc but because Pauil feels the skills of his trade should not die out
One man bands usually have three options on retirement.
Pass on to an heir, no idea if Karl has kids and even if he has maybe not interested.
Sell the business, easy if you are a newsagent.
If you can't sell, wind down and sell your assets.
Option 4, romantic idea involving semi-retirement and an apprentice and leaving him to run the business. I can imagine dozens of potential problems with this idea.
My job moved to Scotland and I did 18 months before I quit and headed South.
So once again, Karl I wish you a happy and long retirement.
Pass on to an heir, no idea if Karl has kids and even if he has maybe not interested.
Sell the business, easy if you are a newsagent.
If you can't sell, wind down and sell your assets.
Option 4, romantic idea involving semi-retirement and an apprentice and leaving him to run the business. I can imagine dozens of potential problems with this idea.
My job moved to Scotland and I did 18 months before I quit and headed South.
So once again, Karl I wish you a happy and long retirement.
