Interesting films about Russia, essential viewing!

[Jacob]

This is utterly gripping, a documentary consisting wholly of contemporary film footage right from the heart of Russian turmoils, with subtitled commentary. Essential viewing, historical, highly recommended! New Adam Curtis project lands on BBC iPlayer on Thursday 13 October
Just got to episode 3 and the collapse of communism and Ukraine independence.

 

[baldkev]

Hopefully episode 7 shows how they'll deal with putin..... maybe he'll fall out of a window like so many other high profile russians

 

[Jacob]

Hopefully episode 7 shows how they'll deal with putin..... maybe he'll fall out of a window like so many other high profile russians

Hasn't got to Putin yet but there's military/KGB coup, Yeltsin versus tanks, oligarchs stacking up bundles of roubles, so Putin must be just around the corner!
PS it also includes lots of footage of ordinary life, peasants struggling whilst s**t hits fans etc. They are a stoic bunch as by and large their lives have always been pretty s****y.. You can't help admiring and feeling sorry for them.

 

[baldkev]

Yep not good. I think ( from memory ) the average life expectancy of a man there is 68 and the retirement age was raised to 67 a couple of years ago ( those numbers might be wrong )
You wouldnt wanna be a russian

 

[johna.clements]

The end of the USSR was f-ed up by people trying to turn it into the USA.
Nothing should have been sold off like it was as soon as possible.
They should brought in advisors from Sweden, Denmark and West Germany who could have told them the good and bad things about those countries.
Then slowly sold off stuff in smaller parts with restrictions on resale and total holdings. They should be still selling off stuff now.
Instead it was sold to the people who were in power before.

 

[Jacob]

The end of the USSR was f-ed up by people trying to turn it into the USA.
Nothing should have been sold off like it was as soon as possible.
They should brought in advisors from Sweden, Denmark and West Germany who could have told them the good and bad things about those countries.
Then slowly sold off stuff in smaller parts with restrictions on resale and total holdings. They should be still selling off stuff now.
Instead it was sold to the people who were in power before.

Gorbachov was advised by Thatcher and Reagan with their heads full of free market nonsense, a tragic mistake. Like being advised by Truss and Farage.

 

[clogs]

I feel sorry for the general pop of Russia.....
shame they didnt stop this before it begun....but u cant in a Gulag....
mass revolt was needed but how would/could they organise it.....?

have met a few expat Russians here.......
quite a lot left years ago mostly because of the silly person in charge........
non of them are as far as I know are rich.....older houses n cars.....
Most are teachers etc....

man what a mess.....
like all tyrants it's just for the nutters at the top and his mates....

there's a milder version running the UK.....still better than being in Russia tho.....

 

[Kittyhawk]

When I first came ashore I worked as a supercargo for a shipping company and we had a Russian crewed ship on charter. Generally when a ship is alongside there will be the duty mate lurking about somewhere, usually in the ship's office and a couple of seamen on deck. So I would find one of the seamen, tell him that the stevedores were on their way and ask him to open Hatch no.3 or whatever and he would do so. On the Russian ship asking the same thing, the seamen would pass my request to the duty mate who would pass it go the chief mate who would pass it to the captain and eventually the order to open up would come back down by the same circuitous route. It drove me crazy trying go get anything done.
With all the stuff that I was involved in on board over many voyages it became obvious that russians are extraordinarily unwilling to take responsibility for anything. I believe the rationale is that if you don't take responsibility then you can't be held accountable and I wonder if this is part of the reason for the abysmal performance of their armed services.

 

[clogs]

I guess it's like a dog that keeps getting a beating, in the end they just give up....
n it's been going on for centuries.........

Cant be said of the Polish.....
worked with a load in heavy engineering over the years......couldn't want for better thinking/ workers/ mates....

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Jacob, just as a matter of interest - is there anything wrong anywhere in the world that isn't Margaret Thatcher's fault? I think we should be told.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, just as a matter of interest - is there anything wrong anywhere in the world that isn't Margaret Thatcher's fault? I think we should be told.

Good point! She just happened to be an egregious manifestation of a free-market fundamentalist ideology, which she didn't invent - that was Hayek and other so-called intellectuals. She survived longer than Truss because she wasn't quite that stupid.

 

[johna.clements]

I feel sorry for the general pop of Russia.....
shame they didnt stop this before it begun....but u cant in a Gulag....
mass revolt was needed but how would/could they organise it.....?

have met a few expat Russians here.......
quite a lot left years ago mostly because of the silly person in charge........
non of them are as far as I know are rich.....older houses n cars.....
Most are teachers etc....

man what a mess.....
like all tyrants it's just for the nutters at the top and his mates....

there's a milder version running the UK.....still better than being in Russia tho.....

There were revolts and fighting. The interior ministry had their own troops.

 

[Jacob]

I feel sorry for the general pop of Russia.....
shame they didnt stop this before it begun....but u cant in a Gulag....
mass revolt was needed but how would/could they organise it.....?

They did in 1991. Ordinary unarmed citiizens against the tanks.
See episode 3

have met a few expat Russians here.......
quite a lot left years ago mostly because of the silly person in charge........
non of them are as far as I know are rich.....older houses n cars.....
Most are teachers etc....

Most people everywhere are just normal people, and harmless! The problem is the other boggers.

man what a mess.....
like all tyrants it's just for the nutters at the top and his mates....

there's a milder version running the UK.....still better than being in Russia tho.....

Putin's regime is capitalism red in tooth and claw. Money is the driving force.

 

[Thingybob]

So Jacob is there any communist country in the world that actually works or is it the old adage it's great in theory but not in practice you need every one behind the idealism or its doomed to fail and human nature being what it is there will always be some one who wants a bigger share of the spoils and sod the workers , And anyone speaking out against them takes up base jumping from multi story Windows.

 

[Jacob]

So Jacob is there any communist country in the world that actually works or is it the old adage it's great in theory but not in practice you need every one behind the idealism or its doomed to fail and human nature being what it is there will always be some one who wants a bigger share of the spoils and sod the workers , And anyone speaking out against them takes up base jumping from multi story Windows.

But what theories actually do work, in which countries?
My theory is that we don't need theories we just need to do what needs doing, and talk about theories afterwards, if anybody really wants to.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

There are a number of definitions, but this seems reasonable starting point - a theory is a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena.

If by our actions we desire a particular outcome (less poverty, better health, fairness etc etc), basing actions upon a theory should improve the probability of the desired outcomes being achieved. If the theory proves wrong, it provides an opportunity for learning and intelligence to improve future outcomes.

Acting from compassion, sympathy, fairness, dogma etc may be compelling or worthy. Sadly it may also waste a lot of energy and resource if poorly conceived or directed.

 

[Thingybob]

But what theories actually do work, in which countries?
My theory is that we don't need theories we just need to do what needs doing, and talk about theories afterwards, if anybody really wants to.

Are you a politician that's the kind of dodge answer we expect from them you have dodged the question are there any communist countries that actually work i.e. that are following the manifesto written up in Rylands at Manchester

 

[Jacob]

Are you a politician that's the kind of dodge answer we expect from them you have dodged the question are there any communist countries that actually work i.e. that are following the manifesto written up in Rylands at Manchester

You tell me, you seem to have read it.
n.b. it's only a little pamphlet and it talks mostly of the economic and political events of the time (1888). Hardly a theory at all - Marx never quite got it sorted, he was revising, rewriting right up to the end. It's all rhetoric. Marx seriously believed that "the revolution" was inevitable (for "scientific reasons") and imminent in 1888.
Are there any countries which actually work and follow the free market fundamentalism of Hayek, Ayn Rand, Liz Truss, Putin, Lord Salisbury, etc. and so on?
If not, why not?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Answering a question with a question. You are a politician and I claim my £5.

 

[Jacob]

Answering a question with a question. You are a politician and I claim my £5.

I'm not that interested in theories but we do need a working housing policy, health service, etc. Seems to be theories which get in the way of achieving these sorts of things.