Identification of these tools

[Romney]

Hello UKworkshop'ers, I'm having trouble identifying some tools that I have come across, do any of you know what they are called and what they may have been used for? They are small plain steel wheels either end of a fluted brass stem (approx 75mm to 100mm), the wheels are of different widths and different diameters. I have included a steel rule as a size guide, they were stored in a case, but due to their different lengths I guess they were collected individually. I believe they look of a vintage/antique nature, from an industry perhaps now mechanised and now lost.

I have had people guess at their use, but no definitive identification. If you know for sure please say that you do.

Some of the guesses have been that they are pleating tools. Used to bevel/fold metal. Used to press wire/metal strips etc into softer materials like wood. Used for wood inlay work. Used for embossing lines into thin sheet metals?

I would be very interested to read what you all think about them, even if you don't know what they are for.

Thank you.

 

[mwinfrance]

Possibly for working leather ( embossing lines ) and bookbinding ( embossing covers and applying foils in lines ( gold etc )..

 

[niall Y]

These? /www.ebay.com/itm/392833043116

 

[mwinfrance]

niall Y wins ... countersinking what though, and how ?

Unless there is a meaning of "countersink" that I'm unaware of ?
Bookbinders tools translates as Outils pour relieurs ( it says they are french on the ebay ad )
But ...On the paper that they are laying on on the ebay ad it says cutters and sinkers..and frese ..so they are metal workers tools..but "countersinkers" there I think is a typo, or reading too fast and typing what they think they saw..or autocorrect maybe ?

 

[Romney]

These? /www.ebay.com/itm/392833043116

Nial, thank you. I have searched Ebay several times looking for these tools, but I guess if I have not named them correctly I will never have found them. Now II know what they are called I will research to see how they are actually used within their intended industry! I did not expect such a rapid answer, thanks.

 

[Romney]

Possibly for working leather ( embossing lines ) and bookbinding ( embossing covers and applying foils in lines ( gold etc )..

Many thanks for your rapid reply, I could very well see them being used to apply gold leaf/foils to leather, wood or paper. Embossing and texturing paper and book covers also.

 

[mwinfrance]

See my post made whilst you were writing..definately metal working tools..but how they are used ?

 

[Romney]

I have just found this video and the wheels look like they are used with a twisting motion to bore into material to create a space for a screw head or similar. I finally get it:

 

[mwinfrance]

Ah ...illumination

 

[Phill05]

They are for countersinking a oil sink for the pivots on old brass clock plates, I have a boxed set that are many years old.

Edit: here is a link to new ones. Bergeon Countersinks Set - Ronell Clock Co.

 

[leisurefix]

They are for countersinking a oil sink for the pivots on old brass clock plates, I have a boxed set that are many years old.

Edit: here is a link to new ones. Bergeon Countersinks Set - Ronell Clock Co.

Beat me to it. There was an article on Radio 4 yesterday about the lack of horologists. My Dad retired about 15 years ago, he passed on some of his skills to me as I worked for him for half a dozen years. Think he has kept some bushes, reamers, burnishers & oil cup cutters, but most of the precision tools were auctioned off for very little.

 

[dannyr]

Beat me to it. There was an article on Radio 4 yesterday about the lack of horologists. My Dad retired about 15 years ago, he passed on some of his skills to me as I worked for him for half a dozen years. Think he has kept some bushes, reamers, burnishers & oil cup cutters, but most of the precision tools were auctioned off for very little.

interesting stuff - any more info might be of interest to us non-clockmenders.

 

[Fergie 307]

Beat me to it. There was an article on Radio 4 yesterday about the lack of horologists. My Dad retired about 15 years ago, he passed on some of his skills to me as I worked for him for half a dozen years. Think he has kept some bushes, reamers, burnishers & oil cup cutters, but most of the precision tools were auctioned off for very little.

I think the issue is primarily cost. Repairing an old clock or watch can involve many hours of work. If you charge a reasonable hourly rate then you are soon looking at a bill for far more than the clock is worth. So unless it is inherently valuable, or of sufficient sentimental value for someone to be prepared to spend a lot of money on it, it is simply not commercially viable.
I collect American clocks, so as an example I recently bought a Welch weight driven clock, circa 1870. Veneered case in lovely condition, and a pretty good dial, cost me £40. I knew the movement was very badly worn, so it has had to be stripped and thoroughly cleaned, then each part checked to assess necessary repairs, say 2 hrs. Then it needed six new bushes, and two of the pinions needed reshaping, another couple of hours. It also needed two further bushes which had to be made specially on the lathe, and fitted. Another hour. Then you put it all back together, replace the weight cords, get it in beat and regulate it, another hour at least, So I have now spent at least six hours. Bearing in mind that the finished clock is never going to be worth more than maybe £150, even a very modest hourly labour rate pushes the cost well beyond what people are generally willing to spend. Watches are if anything even worse. Grandad's pocket watch might only be worth £50, who is going to pay maybe £200 to get it cleaned, serviced and working again.
So I enjoy doing this stuff as a hobby, but I suspect it would be quite difficult to actually make a living out of it.