Ibbottson mortice chisel handles

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I have a couple of Ibbottson socket mortice chisels that I wish to re-handle. I am looking for pictures of original handles for these chisels, or similar.

This is one of the chisels, along with a handle I turned and hooped. It does not feel right to me.

And no, I have not re-ground the bevel yet. It is a high 30 degrees. It will be 20 degrees with a 30 degree microbevel.

In use, these are awesome mortice chisels. Even more so than OBM variety.

All advice welcomed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[BrianD]

Besides gloating :wink: they look like damn fine chisels.

How do you find them in action?

 

[Alf]

Looks almost Japanese-y; I think you need a bit of a bulge, Derek. I've been looking into this myself 'cos I've got three of my own waiting for handles, but I'm hesitating 'cos none of my references seem to want to call anything with a socket a mortise chisel. Plus I really hate hooped handles and keep wondering if I could get away with leather washers instead. But I digress...

There seem to be two main socket handle designs in the catalogues; one is the doubly bulbous type along the lines of these or these (yeah, I know they're for tanged, but there doesn't seem to be much difference beyond the obvious). The other bulges out larger than the socket and hoop diameter, but is otherwise straight, rather along the lines of a hot dog if that makes any sense. Marples, who bought out Ibbottson and subsequently used the name for many years iirc seem to have favoured the double bulge, fwiw.

Interested to hear you like them even more than the OBMs; might get me to actually do something about rehandling so I can try for myself and we can compare notes.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Jake]

I've seen a few around with a cone-like handle, kind of a continuation of the swell of the socket - whether that is original or not, I haven't a clue.

 

[David C]

Alf,

I sympathize about not liking hoops.

Clearly you need some Maine Hophornbeam, known locally as iron wood.

Since this timber stands up well to thumping with a metal hammer it would surely be even happier with a mallet which I guess you prefer.

Best wishes,
David

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Looks almost Japanese-y; I think you need a bit of a bulge, Derek. I've been looking into this myself 'cos I've got three of my own waiting for handles, but I'm hesitating 'cos none of my references seem to want to call anything with a socket a mortise chisel. Plus I really hate hooped handles and keep wondering if I could get away with leather washers instead.

Alf

I am with you here. The handle I made was modelled on the other Ibbottson I have, a 1/2". The one I showed is 3/8".

I agree it looks like a Japanese chisel (in fact I realised that I could use this Grey Gum as a substiture for Red Oak. It has the same stringy appearance). I also agree that a handle for this needs "something". At this moment the handle that I think will suit it best is the Stanley handle used by LN.

For reference, here are the two Ibbottson mortice chisels together with two OBM types of the same size. The 1/2" OBMC is huge! I spent time this today making a new handle for it. It is also in Grey Gum, as is the other OBMC, but the latter has a little Jarrah stain to bring out the grain.

Here is a comparison of Grey Gum with a few familiar woods:

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Alf]

The handle I made was modelled on the other Ibbottson I have, a 1/2". The one I showed is 3/8".

Now that's verging on the hot dog version - just a bit worn down perhaps?

At this moment the handle that I think will suit it best is the Stanley handle used by LN.

Hmm... Well I suppose the LNs have a pronounced "waist" so maybe it suits them to have handles with one too - up to you, but not sure I would :wink: That's from the cover of Rob Cosman's mortising DVD isn't it? I thought Rosewood was a no-no for hitting handles? I'm perplexed :-s

And Grey Gum reads like the ultimate in hitting-handle woods; I'm jealous. Bit of a bear to work? (Say yes; I'll feel better ) Now I'm waiting for the remaining DC to mention a third ideal wood I'll never be able to get hold of. :ho2 :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Mirboo]

Derek,

Have you tried spotted gum for chisel handles.

Name: Spotted Gum
Source: NSW
Density: 950
Tough: 24 (J) Impact (Izod value)
Hard: 11 (kN) (Janka)

According to the book "Wood In Australia" by Keith Bootle, "it is not hard to work" and the "frequent presence of wavy grain produces an attractive fiddleback figure." It is fairly common over here in NSW but I'm not sure how easy it would be to get in WA.

I'm actually planning to make a dinning table from spotted gum for our home just because I like the look of it, but it is supposed to be pretty tough also. The toughness might be good given what my 2 and 3 year olds can do to furniture.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Alf

Yes, Grey Gum is hard to work with. You'd hate it. Only masochists go near it. It is associated with nightmares, an obsessive preoccupation with mastering its grain, and tennis elbow. That's some of the good points... :lol:

Feel better now?


Hi Ian

Why GG and not Spotted Gum. Because some kind soul (or was he really? :-k ) gave me several roofing rafters of the stuff. It's too boring for furniture, so I am using it up on handles such as these. But I think I will add a little stain in future. That seems to liven it up.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I managed to rough out a handle similar to the Stanley/LN as a test. Tell me what you think.

It feels good in the hand. I have a full palmar grip (5 fingers) around the upper section. I have not held/used a LN, only seen pictures, but I think this section is a little longer on mine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Mirboo]

Looks good Derek. I'll measure the handles on my Lie-Nielsen mortice chisels for comparison if you like. I think from memory the Lie-Nielsen's have two different handle sizes. The 1/2-inch chisel has a large handle and the other four in the set have the same sized handles that are smaller than on the 1/2-inch.

 

[Jasper Homminga]

Derek,

I like the way your handle first follows the line of the socket, elegant (why would I want elegant mortising chisels?). Would the groove after that weaken the handle too much?
Personally, I like the look of the handles Bob Smalser put on these chisels (but they do have a hoop). These look nice as well, simple but strong.
On my (tanged) mortise chisels I also have a full palmar grip, but above that I still have a about 2-3 fingers of wood left. This feels safer on my fingers when I'm hitting away. (hammer)

Jasper

 

[Evergreen]

Looks good, Derek.

Whatever the handle design, Ibbottsons are fine chisels. I've got a 3/16" Ibbottson OBM chisel that's beautifully finished and is a favourite. I've never seen an Ibbottson socket mortise chisel, though, and I wonder if it superseded the OBM design as being stronger? Perhaps it helped to sell overseas?

Regards.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Jasper, thanks for the pictures. As hooped chisels go, I like the line of the second set. However, like Alf, I'd like to try a set without hoops.

Ian, the measurements of the LN would help a lot. Thanks.

Evergreen, I have only used the 1/2" Ibbottson a couple of times, and even with the 30 degree single bevel, it was a very powerful mortice chisel. These two Ibbottsons seem more weighty than the OBM type. Too early to say which is preferred.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Scrit]

Hi Derek

This any good?

Allright they're Marples, but they all appear to be original complete with leather washers. I'll try to get you a photo of the Ibbotsons if you like, although they're very similar

Scrit

 

[Chris Knight]

Derek,
Or these?

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Thanks Scrit and Chris

This reminded me that I have these from a Witherby catalogue as well.

What do you think?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Mirboo]

Hi Derek,

The picture below includes the dimensions of the handles of my Lie-Nielsen mortice chisels. All of the measurements are expressed in millimetres.



I used a vernier to measure the handles on my 1/2-inch and 3/8-inch mortice chisels. The 1/2-inch chisel has a larger handle than the other chisels in the set and the 3/16, 1/4, 5/16 and 3/8-inch chisels all have the same sized handles.

When I took the above picture I had the 1/2-inch chisel positioned further away from the camera than the 3/8-inch chisel. As a result, the handle on the 1/2-inch chisel does not look as large in the picture as it actually is relative to the handle of the 3/8-inch chisel.

It turns out that at its narrowest point the larger 1/2-inch chisel handle is actually 0.5mm narrower than the smaller 3/8-inch chisel handle, I checked it twice to make sure I hadn't accidentally switched measurements around.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

An update on the Ibbottson front.

Brendon Moore, a fellow inmate of this assylum, sent me a couple of images of Ibbottson mortice chisels with original handles (so he believes).

Here is one:

My reaction was surprise ... not because they are the ugliest things I have seen in years, but because I have a Ward in the cabinet that is identical in every way. I thought that this was a handle cut down by some galoot.

What say the collected inmates? Does this look genuine? Does anyone else recognise this monstrocity?

Regards from Perth

Derek