How Necessary is a Specialised Scrub Plane?

[Benchwayze]

My thruppence worth is beware

Beware woody hipsters who laud old specialist planes, which no longer have a use in the real world.

Are you saying that operations that required special ols are no longer

My thruppence worth is beware

Beware woody hipsters who laud old specialist planes, which no longer have a use in the real world.

Maybe substitute MODERN for REAL? There comes a time when only the old fashioned way can do. That's why I keep spare blades for my Number 4.5 and 5.5. Not that I am likely to buy timber that rough these days.

John

 

[Benchwayze]

productivity when used by the deceased or those near it is fairly poor!

Shall I hang up my apron then D W? Just concentrate on contemplating my old wrinkled navel?

 

[D_W]

Shall I hang up my apron then D W? Just concentrate on contemplating my old wrinkled navel?

hah...my spouse contends that in my state of pudgery and lethargy, I'm at death's door. If we can still move, it's probably good for us!! Probably not a great hobby to introduce first at a hospice, though.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Richard, not aimed at you at all.

To be honest, I didn't think you'd aimed your comments specifically at me. I agree that there does seem to be a fair amount of what might be perceived as somewhat dubious sales orientated bloggery out there, or bloggery that's just generally not very good. I'm probably not the ideal person to judge because I rarely bother to read blogs and, similarly, YouTube offerings on woodworking topics are pretty much be ignored by me. Slainte.

 

[TRITON]

Are you saying that operations that required special ols are no longer

Maybe substitute MODERN for REAL? There comes a time when only the old fashioned way can do. That's why I keep spare blades for my Number 4.5 and 5.5. Not that I am likely to buy timber that rough these days.

John

I was just making humour of it all, as is my way, but as you want to argue the point,then no there is little to no place for a scrub plane, in this modern world.
We no longer have saw pits and two handed saws to cut boards with. Sure you can set one up and live the historical dream, but again its only something to do to live a dream, its not financially viable.

A scrub plane is for bringing a flattish surface of hewed or rough sawn timber before utilizing other planes like the no5 or 6 to flatten it more accurately.
If people want to do that and make it all entirely handmade than thats fine and dandy, but not a requirement and it can only really happen in a hobby setting.
I have taken a log, split it, quartered boards out of it and flattened them using planes(No4+5,6) and chisels and rasps and everything else i had to bring the boards to an approximately flat surface to work on from, and let me tell you that was A REAL CHORE, I was glad to have finished the project and swore I'd not be doing that again.
This is why I own a planer/thicknesser

My joke point was in many things we get Hipsters' who are only there to argue the point, and in reality they have no point, but insist that these old planes must be used and if you dont or cant then it makes you a lesser carpenter.

As ive said, its fine if you want to play the historical game, or live out in the boonies without electricity, but these techniques and tools have no place as using them to prepare your stock will make the cost of your furniture unimaginable prices.

 

[Benchwayze]

Triton.
Please don't jump to conclusions and if you must, look before you leap.

I do not wish to argue any point. I was merely making an observation. I don't consider the present woodworking age as 'real' by comparison. That implies old methods are unreal. I consider today's ways as modern; which by comparison they can be. That was my point, and I am quite content working with my own modern labour saving machines when my doddery hands shake too much for my old tools. Also no pun intended, but I was was using a Triton almost thirty years ago!

John

 

[TRITON]

OK, argue is too strong a point, i didnt actually mean that, i mean more 'debate' the point.

But with everything humour is the key

My router table/router are Triton, and you know what its like trying to figure an appropriate username.
Actually the Triton router table is a piece of Pish, to give it its Glaswegian parlance. Im thinking of putting it on gumtree for some mug....er budding new woodworker to snap up, and opting for something with a cast iron top. Their(triton) stuff is ok, but in reality its just ok bordering on rubbish well their static stuff is, although i do admit its got plenty of interesting features, their routers on the other hand are seriously good kit.

 

[Jacob]

.....

My joke point was in many things we get Hipsters' who are only there to argue the point, and in reality they have no point, but insist that these old planes must be used and if you dont or cant then it makes you a lesser carpenter.
...

I wasn't insisting that they must be used I was just pointing out a particular use i.e. if you happen to want to recycle some very scruffy old timbers.
Thanks to the long rambling discussion above and the delving into old books, it seems I was right and that's exactly what they were intended for in the first place!
A very limited role and, other than that, not much use at all, which is why there were not many of them about - virtually unknown in the UK

 

[D_W]

To be honest, I didn't think you'd aimed your comments specifically at me. I agree that there does seem to be a fair amount of what might be perceived as somewhat dubious sales orientated bloggery out there, or bloggery that's just generally not very good. I'm probably not the ideal person to judge because I rarely bother to read blogs and, similarly, YouTube offerings on woodworking topics are pretty much be ignored by me. Slainte.

Ditto on those - I've read a few blogs for a little bit, but the personal branding in each is too much for me. working the wood and then solving actual problems is pretty efficient for learning, but it takes knowing what you want to make and then trying to meet a high standard. Reading blogs or books and getting too much woo from them leads to making things that aren't very interesting to the maker. The woo wears off, and so does the urge to make anything.

As a hobby, this is a fairly expensive one, and I guess the turn toward the "something for nothing" blogs is predictable, along with the product placement blogs and a sprinkle of mysticism.

Having self-taught more or less heat treatment, I figured that I could pick up a couple of new steels and see what's regarded as the best way to work them. There are two texts at this point that do a good job of covering them, but they are about 1% of the information out there. When I went to youtube and checked various "gurus", they were all behind what I have learned in terms of control and manipulation of steel for heat treatment. I learned only a single thing over a lot of ours (to use a metal plug to heat oil if that's desirable), and the rest was just a waste of time. The texts aren't, and they cost a tiny fraction of any of the guru club/patreon/pay to read sites. But the books don't contain the woo or any personal branding.

 

[D_W]

As ive said, its fine if you want to play the historical game, or live out in the boonies without electricity, but these techniques and tools have no place as using them to prepare your stock will make the cost of your furniture unimaginable prices.

This is the false part of the information - that if you're working by hand, you're doing it for historical value or re-enacting. I caught derek even at one point calling me a re-enactor. I walk to the shop in slippers and sweat pants and often use a cordless drill. The part of the work that you didn't like, I do like. It's that simple.

It doesn't have a lot of commercial value, but that's generally not the point of a hobby. Someone using a $10k power tool shop is generally also going to have zero commercial value, and probably not enough tool accuracy to build and fit things any faster than someone with hand tools aside from the use of the thickness planer or table saw for gobs of feet of thin sticking.

Economically feasible commercial work here involves things like CNC machines and wide belt sanders, and a loan.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Reading blogs or books and getting too much woo from them leads to making things that aren't very interesting to the maker. The woo wears off, and so does the urge to make anything.

David, I'm pretty sure that if you were ever to stoop to buying, and actually reading my tome on the boring old topic of woody subjects (yawn, and extended overexaggerated yawn), you really wouldn't be overwhelmed by "too much woo", ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[IainD]

David

When you're following on from the Jack what's the width and camber of the blade on the Try plane, and how tight do you have the mouth?

Cheers, Iain

 

[Jameshow]

Oh the scrub plane thread.... Where have you been my old freind!!!

Cheers James

 

[Jacob]

Oh the scrub plane thread.... Where have you been my old freind!!!

Cheers James

I've scrubbed a few more bits of old beam lately but don't tell D_W he'll only get over excited!

I'll chip in on Iain's question. Adjusting mouth openings is fashionable with the toolies but basically best avoided.
On the common Stanley/Bailey pattern it's best to have zero adjustment - the frog dead in line with the back of the mouth to give max support for the blade - the back will rest on the mouth opening by a mm or so. Then never adjust it again for the rest of your life!

 

[IainD]

I've scrubbed a few more bits of old beam lately but don't tell D_W he'll only get over excited!

I'll chip in on Iain's question. Adjusting mouth openings is fashionable with the toolies but basically best avoided.
On the common Stanley/Bailey pattern it's best to have zero adjustment - the frog dead in line with the back of the mouth to give max support for the blade - the back will rest on the mouth opening by a mm or so. Then never adjust it again for the rest of your life!

Jacob, to put it into context, I'm purchasing an old wooden plane and don't want to buy one with the mouth to large.

Cheers, Iain

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, to put it into context, I'm purchasing an old wooden plane and don't want to buy one with the mouth to large.

Cheers, Iain

I doubt it'd matter within reason, but you see a lot of old woodies with a plate of fresh wood set into the front of the mouth. They tend to be oldish well worn planes. I guess this is because as the sole wears the mouth gets even wider and possibly battered by use, rather than doing it to reduce a normal average mouth width.
Just checked a few usable woodies, edge of blade to back of mouth varies from about 3/32 to 1/4".These are planes which work well.

 

[IainD]

"Just checked a few usable woodies, edge of blade to back of mouth varies from about 3/32 to 1/4".These are planes which work well."

Do you mean to the front of the mouth Jacob?

 

[D_W]

David

When you're following on from the Jack what's the width and camber of the blade on the Try plane, and how tight do you have the mouth?

Cheers, Iain

I'll measure these things, but all of my try planes are 2.5 inch irons. None has a particularly large mouth and the camber is some more than a smoother, but not too much more. The try plane is taking the tops off of the jack scallops first and doesn't need to have a huge amount of camber.

 

[Adam W.]

A dedicated scrub plane is a very powerful tool and indispensable for the work I do.

Mine's made of treewood and has a lignum base.

I don't know how wide the mouth is, nor do I know what pitch, thickness or radius the iron has

 

[Jacob]

"Just checked a few usable woodies, edge of blade to back of mouth varies from about 3/32 to 1/4".These are planes which work well."

Do you mean to the front of the mouth Jacob?

Yes!