How do you put a price on your work?

[Jelly]

I've had quite a lot of requests from friends and aquaintances to do/make stuff recently; I've turned down several requests (mainly carpentry, outside of my training and experience) but I've taken a couple of small furniture projects on and have a large joinery job (four huge sliding doors need new bottom rails) under consideration.

My only rule is never to take something I don't think I can do to an appropriate standard.

The major issue is, how much do I charge for my time... for smaller stuff I'm happy to work fror free and just cover the costs, but if i'm going to spend most of my free time on something (i'm a part time student) then I feel justified in charging.

Linked is the issue of do I treat this as a sideline or as a full on profit making enterprise?

 

[RogerBoyle]

Its long been my experience that while you continue to work for friends, family and Acquaintance’s for next to nothing then you will get asked for all sorts of things to be made and to be honest family and close friends tend to take it for granted that they will get any works done at cost..
Just Human nature I'm afraid

As for pricing work that's quite simple to be honest
Calculate the cost of raw materials including at least 10-15% wastage
Calculate the time factor (labour) for all aspects
(for example it may take 12 hours to make a piece but it may take 14 hours to finish it)
Calculate all your overheads in making the piece. Rent, rates, insurances ,Electricity, heating ,lighting, phone etc
don't forget to factor any misc items like glues, sandpaper etc etc,
Then add a safety margin for anything that you may have missed

Add it all together and divide by the hours that you have allowed for and that will give you a break even price for that particular piece .Now you have to adjust that figure to allow for profit...
Its at this point that most folks just starting out Gulp, Panic and then start to say silly things like Well I could do the build in half the time and I will miss a couple of steps in the finish so instead of it being a £1000 job you have got it down to £750 and that sounds better to you so give the customer that price and before you know it your tied into making something that you will lose money on ,, in fact you will be lucky to break even LOL.

TBH it happens to virtually everyone when they first start out

Now in your current position you will not have the same overheads as joinery shops nor will you have the same tools or Speed or knowledge The folks that you are currently making thing for know you are cheap so they will not expect to pay to much otherwise they may just go to somebody else..
Best bet is to sound them out about how much they think it should cost them then start to haggle..

Good Luck
Roger

 

[Jelly]

Now in your current position you will not have the same overheads as joinery shops nor will you have the same tools or Speed or knowledge. The folks that you are currently making thing for know you are cheap so they will not expect to pay to much otherwise they may just go to somebody else..
Best bet is to sound them out about how much they think it should cost them then start to haggle..

That's pretty much it, I'm only able to work at a "profitable speed" on things I'm already highly practiced at so If I was to charge more for the extra time taken when I take on stuff that pushes me, I'm essentially asking someone to pay me to learn which isn't (in my book) fair. This is compounded by the fact that to get an acceptable finish on a large panel by hand could take me several hours, when it would take a matter of minutes for a joinery shop with a decent sized P/T...

I know that with low overheads and milling my own timber I can seriously undercut a lot of operations and still make a profit (though if I made over 5k gross in any given year, I'd then have to start dealing with tax), I also know that I'm never going to compete with any serious operation on cost alone, long lead times and many things being impractical are both issues, not to mention the lack of an internal timber store, requiring me to get timber milled and adjusting to an internal MC several weeks before it's wanted.

I think some discussion with potential customers about what they're willing to pay (which seems to be significantly more than the material cost) and what they expect at that price is the way forward... Essentially financing my hobby and maybe giving me a few extra beer tokens here and there. If I wanted to make more money, I'd be looking at a significant capital investment in terms finding a suitable workspace and acquiring machine-tools to increase my productivity to an acceptable speed; which is getting away from what I like in the first place.

In a related note, it would seem that in spite of returning to uni and deciding not to pursue accreditation and further training in woodwork (for financial reasons), the timber industry is still clawing me back in slowly!

 

[Jacob]

.....
The major issue is, how much do I charge for my time... .....

You don't charge for your time. Instead you charge a price for the finished object which is comparable to the price of similar objects out there on the market. Higher or lower, it's up to you.
If you aren't getting enough for your time then perhaps put it down to experience - which is probably more valuable as an investment than many tools or machines.

 

[Jelly]

.....
The major issue is, how much do I charge for my time... .....

You don't charge for your time. Instead you charge a price for the finished object which is comparable to the price of similar objects out there on the market. Higher or lower, it's up to you.
If you aren't getting enough for your time then perhaps put it down to experience - which is probably more valuable as an investment than many tools or machines.

Experience is definitely what I need most, especially if I want to think about this commercially!

For the furniture work, charging for the object based on an estimate of the costs involved and market value makes sense.

For the door repairs it's harder, even if I inspect them thoroughly there's no telling exactly what I'll find when I cut the rotten sections out; I could price it based on a worst case scenario or describe the likely scenarios and how that would affect the cost... I've done a lot of work on doors and large windows, otherwise I wouldn't even be considering it!

 

[slpower01]

What I typically do is price by the day and know what I need to make in a day to make a decent profit. In the case of the door repairs price for the worst case scenario and if it isn't as bad as you thought it would be take a bit off the overall price and tell the client why. This will help you win people over (people love when things are cheaper then they thought). But if its going to be more work then you thought purely down to your lack of experience then I think you should leave it to a professional to do.

 

[CraigyCraigo]

When i do work for anyone (only as a hobby) i eye up my next few purchases and size them to that job..... if i want a new plane at say the 100 quid mark and the job is maybe one that would cost the customer around 250-500 quid else where i just ask for 100 to expand my tool range. again this is only one of my hobby's...... if i'm after say a 50 quid item i'd be looking at jobs in the 100-250 bracket..... just go on cut feel really. this rule is only for familly and friends if the job warrents a little reward though. I say all this but most of the 'work' i do i don't charge. I'm silly really but like someone said its human nature to ask for a 'favour' doing....... and i don't seem to be able to charge the elderly anymore than material cost....... i did my auntie some work and both neighbours asked for the same (not quite joinery/carpentry but fasica and soffit work) both were in the 70's and i just did it...... i got a bottle of wine off them both the following week as i wouldn't take the money......

 

[jhwbigley]

(though if I made over 5k gross in any given year, I'd then have to start dealing with tax)

Don't forget your Tax/NI is worked out from the combined income.
Keep records, it will help if you ever decided to go it alone.

Have a look at Richards estimating for furniture makers article.

http://www.richardjonesfurniture.com/PD ... mating.pdf

JH