Home Cinema System

[Mike.C]

A friend of ours who is a stubborn old begger wants to update her home cinema system but she does not want to take the Bluray route and wants to stick with DVD. We have tried to convince her that Bluray is the way to go but she will have none of it saying that she cannot see much difference between the two, and that it is certainly not worth the increase in price.

Anyway she has found a Sony system that she likes and as it upscales to 1080 she has given in on this one point and is going to buy a HDMI cable to connect the system to her tv, but for some reason the salesman told us that if she wanted to use her home cinema system to watch normal tv and not just dvd's she would need a optical audio cable. Is this correct?

At the moment she has her standard (non hd) sky box, home cinema, and tv all connected to each other with scart cables, and she watches both sky and her dvd's through her home cinema, so surely she can do the same with her new system, the only difference being that her tv is connected to the home cinema with a HDMI cable and her sky box, which does not have a HDMI socket is connected to it with a scart plug?

Or am I missing something?

Cheers

Mike

 

[TrimTheKing]

A friend of ours who is a stubborn old begger wants to update her home cinema system but she does not want to take the Bluray route and wants to stick with DVD. We have tried to convince her that Bluray is the way to go but she will have none of it saying that she cannot see much difference between the two, and that it is certainly not worth the increase in price.

Anyway she has found a Sony system that she likes and as it upscales to 1080 she has given in on this one point and is going to buy a HDMI cable to connect the system to her tv, but for some reason the salesman told us that if she wanted to use her home cinema system to watch normal tv and not just dvd's she would need a optical audio cable. Is this correct?

At the moment she has her standard (non hd) sky box, home cinema, and tv all connected to each other with scart cables, and she watches both sky and her dvd's through her home cinema, so surely she can do the same with her new system, the only difference being that her tv is connected to the home cinema with a HDMI cable and her sky box, which does not have a HDMI socket is connected to it with a scart plug?

Or am I missing something?

Cheers

Mike

Hmmm, can't see how that's right! Unless he's talking about having the sky box go into the cinema system.

Or, was he talking about SkyHD as that only outputs stereo through the HDMI and you need the optical to get 5.1?

Do you have a model number for the new system? Post that up and I ill have a look at the spcs and see what inputs it has. Maybe it doesn't have scart inputs? Dunno.

If you get the model numbers of all the devices she intends to have in the new system I can draw you a connectivity diagram showing what should connect to where if that would help.

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Mark, thanks very much I will give her a ring now and get the model numbers :wink:

Right the tv she has is a Panasonic TX-L32X15B and she fancies one of two Home Cinema systems. The first being:

Sony DAV-DZ280

and the second is a Panasonic SC-PT470 EB-K (which I think she prefers now)

The sky box is just an ordinary non hd type with no hdmi sockets, but it does have scarts.

One other thing, if she updates to SkyHD how will she have full HD with only one HDMI socket on her tv?

Cheers

Mike

 

[OLD]

I think the answer to the question is yes .My tuner amp does not have hdmi so i use a optical input from sky box to provide tv sound to the 5.1 system. It all depends on the inputs available on the sony kit.

 

[TrimTheKing]

I think the answer to the question is yes .My tuner amp does not have hdmi so i use a optical input from sky box to provide tv sound to the 5.1 system. It all depends on the inputs available on the sony kit.

Standard sky doesn't have HDMI on it anyway, so this is irrelevant in this instance.

I think the definition of what the salesman said is probably the question mark. There is absolutely no reason why you would need an optical cable to watch 'normal' tv from the sky box through the surround, unless

1/ The surround doesn't have a scart input
2/ It does have a scart input but one that only does video and not audio

Sky outputs its audio in stereo through the scart, 5.1 through the optical and stereo through the phono out.

I think the real bit we need to understand is whether the salesman was planning on them connecting the sky directly to the TV or though the surround. If directly to TV with scart then yes, to get sound through the surround you would need another audio source from sky box to surround (phono or optical). If you were to connect the sky box to the surround via scart then this should take the audio too, caveats above permitting, so in that instance as OLD says, the inputs on the surround are what we need to know.

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Mark, thanks very much I will give her a ring now and get the model numbers :wink:

Right the tv she has is a Panasonic TX-L32X15B and she fancies one of two Home Cinema systems. The first being:

Sony DAV-DZ280

and the second is a Panasonic SC-PT470 EB-K (which I think she prefers now)

The sky box is just an ordinary non hd type with no hdmi sockets, but it does have scarts.

One other thing, if she updates to SkyHD how will she have full HD with only one HDMI socket on her tv?

She will be connecting everything through the dvd system, until she makes her mind up about sky hd

Cheers

Mike

Mark just in case you missed all the details I put above, here they are again.

Cheers

Mike

 

[TrimTheKing]

Hi Mike

Just had a look at the specs and downloaded the manuals of both the sony and the panny. Ultimately I think the answer, as OLD said , is yes, to get the sky sound to play through the surround device you will need to connect the scart from the sky directly to the TV and either listen to the stereo signal through the TV speakers, or connect the scart as before but add the optical cable from Sky to surround to get the 5.1 sound through the system.

The reason for this is that unlike a proper AV Amp/Receiver these system appear to only have video outputs and no inputs. For example, my AV Amp takes in HDMI connections from BluRay, Media Streamer and SkyHD and outputs the audio from these out of the various speakers. The only cable then going to the TV is a single HDMI taking the video signal.

These systems appear to play the DVD/BluRay signal only out of the HDMI/SCART connections but will allow external audio inputs meaning each other video source needs to connect directly to the TV.

The thing that would annoy me about this is that for each individual device (assuming she has anything other than the sky) she will need to change the audio input source manually each time she changes between devices, and depending on how clever the TV is, she may also need to change TV input too each time she swaps between DVD/TV/any other.

This may or may not be a problem to her but it would annoy the hell out of me

Hopw this makes sense, happy to talk through it with you if you want to drop me a PM.

Cheers

Mark

PS FWIW I think the SONY looks the better of the two systems, features wise. Obviously I haven't seen the quality of either so this is based purely on reading the tech specs and user manuals.

 

[OLD]

Panasonic has Viera Link which when using compatable devices controls inputs etc.If i switch on the pan. dvd the tv comes on too, on the correct input and scaling but with my separate system i have to switch the amp . So for a easy time a all panasonic system is worth considering.Obviously you can play non bluray dvds on a bluray system.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Panasonic has Viera Link which when using compatable devices controls inputs etc.If i switch on the pan. dvd the tv comes on too, on the correct input and scaling but with my separate system i have to switch the amp . So for a easy time a all panasonic system is worth considering.Obviously you can play non bluray dvds on a bluray system.

Good point, I ignored the fact that the TV was a panny too.

 

[Mike.C]

Many thanks for your advice Mark and Old.

I was looking at the remote to her tv and as you say it has a Viera Tools and Viera Link buttons.

The thing that I cannot understand is, at the moment she has a really old Phillips LX3700D dvd home cinema system, and her tv, the dvd system and sky box are connected by scart plugs, and she is running 5.1 now without any optical audio cable.

Cheers

Mike

 

[TrimTheKing]

Hi Mike

If you look here this is the pdf manual for the Philips system. If you look on page 15 it shows you a list of the connections it has on the back. There is only a single scart socket out so unless this diagram is wrong then there is no way that they are all interconnected.

What you might find is that there are L/R audio cables from Sky to DVD system which the system is then outputting as pseudo surround, but it definitely won't be true 5.1 from anything other than DVD playback without some kind of digital (coax or optical) connection because scarts can only carry 2 channel audio.

Page 11 of tha manual shows their suggested method of connecting a Sky box and this tells you to connect the Sky scart to the TV. This example shows that they are connecting the DVD output over composite to the sky box and passing that signal out to the TV :shock: There's no surprise she can't see much difference between TV and DVD, composite is destroying the picture quality of the DVD and briging it right down.

The way this should be done to get best video quality and full digital audio, with this system, is:

DVD-TV = SCART
SKY-TV = SCART
SKY-DVD = Optical/Coax

Can you get a look at the system and draw up all the interconnects so we can better understand how it is set up now?

HTH

 

[Mike.C]

Mark wrote:

There's no surprise she can't see much difference between TV and DVD, composite is destroying the picture quality of the DVD and briging it right down.

I cannot understand it because it does not sound that bad for an old system, and not that I have really ever sat down and watched it for more then a couple of minutes, the picture is fairly good :duno: But as you say if the dvd quality is not to good or at least the same as the TV then that is probably why she does not see any quality issues.

She does not watch terrestrial tv, or not really as she watches everything on sky through the AV channel, would that make any difference?

I had a quick look behind her tv and she has a scart running from the sky box to the tv and then one from the dvd to the tv, and the only other wires are the 6 sets running from the speakers to the dvd.

So whether she gets the Sony or Panasonic mentioned above what leads does she need to buy to get fell digital audio and does she need a HDMI cable just in case she updates to skyhd? If she does get the skyhd box will she need any extra leads? And finally will she be watching and hearing full hd through either of the above systems?
I realise that unless she buys a bluray player/system the best she can hope for is upscaling to 1080, but can she add a bluray to either of these systems at a later date?

Cheers

Mike

 

[TrimTheKing]

Hi Mike

I've just written a massive reply to this, but to be honest it was starting to confuse myself. :? :wink:

I will send you a PM with my phone number, it will be easier for you to give me a buzz and I can talk you through how I understand it.

 

[TrimTheKing]

There's no surprise she can't see much difference between TV and DVD, composite is destroying the picture quality of the DVD and briging it right down.

I cannot understand it because it does not sound that bad for an old system, and not that I have really ever sat down and watched it for more then a couple of minutes, the picture is fairly good :duno: But as you say if the dvd quality is not to good or at least the same as the TV then that is probably why she does not see any quality issues.

Ignore this now based on what we know about the connectivity.

She does not watch terrestrial tv, or not really as she watches everything on sky through the AV channel, would that make any difference?

If she is only watching TV through AV then she is watching it through SCART and getting the best possible video out of the system.

I had a quick look behind her tv and she has a scart running from the sky box to the tv and then one from the dvd to the tv, and the only other wires are the 6 sets running from the speakers to the dvd.

I'm really quite confused about this now Mike. If the below is what she has then I have summarised under that what she will be seeing/hearing.

SKY-TV = SCART
DVD-TV = SCART
DVD-SPEAKERS

So, with this in mind what she will be getting is this

Watching DVD
- Video sent to TV via SCART (best possible she can achieve with this system)
- Audio sent directly from DVD system out of speakers, will be full 5.1 (best possible she can achieve with this system)

Watching TV
- Video sent from Sky to TV via SCART (best possible she can achieve with this system)
- Audio??? With no connectivity from the Sky to the DVD system then I cannot see how the sound can come out of the system speakers! Are you sure she isn't just getting the Sky audio out of the TV speakers only?

The only other way I can see that the Sky audio could come out of the system is if the SCARTs on the TV and system are 2 way communication and passing the audio from the Sky to the system, but I'm not sure whether or not that is how SCART works.

So whether she gets the Sony or Panasonic mentioned above what leads does she need to buy to get fell digital audio

To answer this one first, if she buys either the SONY or the Panasonic then to get the best out of it she needs to connect it as follows (and this is based on not be able to find any reference to absolutely confirm that the SCART on the SONY/Panasonic's are I/O or just output so might differ if they are I/O. The SONY states on the diagrams that the SCART is 'Output to TV' so this would indicate single way transmission, but one of the diagrams in the manual suggests that if you connect all devices to the TV via SCART then you will get the Sky sound through the system, so they must be 2 way in that case.)

SONY-TV = HDMI (For DVD/Sky output to TV)
SONY-TV = AV1 SCART (For receiving Video from Sky through TV)
Sky-TV = AV2 SCART (For sending video to TV from Sky)
Sky-SONY = Optical fibre cable (For digital sound from Sky box. SCART only passes 2 channel).

and does she need a HDMI cable just in case she updates to skyhd?

If you set it up as above, then get SkyHD she will need a second HDMI between SkyHD and TV as there is no HDMI input though the system.

If she does get the skyhd box will she need any extra leads?

Only as above. The optical cable will just shift between Sky boxes.

And finally will she be watching and hearing full hd through either of the above systems?

SkyHD is 1080i, not 1080P (true 'full' HD, but she will be as close as you can be with SkyHD).

I realise that unless she buys a bluray player/system the best she can hope for is upscaling to 1080, but can she add a bluray to either of these systems at a later date?

Yes, but there is only a single digital input for audio on these systems so she would either have to buy some kind of fibre switch box to allow 2 inputs to a single output, or switch the optical cable between SkyHD/BluRay when changing devices.

Sorry if all that is a bit or a ramble, but hopefully it will make sense. You have my number if you want to talk it through.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Mark, I have just answered your pm, and as I said I will contact you when my wife's friend buys the system.

I think the problem is, her ex set the system up, and if you say that the present wiring is not meant to give the results that it is, then I believe you, and I can only think that he has done something, or used uncommon leads, maybe even rewired them (is that possible?)

Sorry to give you a such a pain in the backside thread, but as I said my wife's friend sends her heartfelt thanks.

Cheers

Mike

 

[TrimTheKing]

Hi Mark, I have just answered your pm, and as I said I will contact you when my wife's friend buys the system.

I think the problem is, her ex set the system up, and if you say that the present wiring is not meant to give the results that it is, then I believe you, and I can only think that he has done something, or used uncommon leads, maybe even rewired them (is that possible?)

Sorry to give you a such a pain in the backside thread, but as I said my wife's friend sends her heartfelt thanks.

Cheers

Mike

No PM come through mate.

I have just realised something, I have been talking about the panasonic system, (the new one that she doesn't even have yet!!!) when I was talknig about the cabling. Obviously the system she is using currently might work in a different way re connectivity so may well work absolutely fine the way it is wired currently.

Still, what I have said about the new system is still correct.

I didn't mention it before but after looking at the ystsems again I think she would be best going for the Panasonic one as OLD said. Reason being that the SONY doesn;t have an optical input (according to the manual) so the optical on the Panny, along with the integration with the Panasonic TV would appear to be the best match. In my last post, if you replace SONY with Panny then then connectivity is still right.

Just my opinion though.

No probs, glad to help.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Mark, I have just answered your pm, and as I said I will contact you when my wife's friend buys the system.

I think the problem is, her ex set the system up, and if you say that the present wiring is not meant to give the results that it is, then I believe you, and I can only think that he has done something, or used uncommon leads, maybe even rewired them (is that possible?)

Sorry to give you a such a pain in the backside thread, but as I said my wife's friend sends her heartfelt thanks.

Cheers

Mike

No PM come through mate.

I have just realised something, I have been talking about the panasonic system, (the new one that she doesn't even have yet!!!) when I was talknig about the cabling. Obviously the system she is using currently might work in a different way re connectivity so may well work absolutely fine the way it is wired currently.

Still, what I have said about the new system is still correct.

I didn't mention it before but after looking at the ystsems again I think she would be best going for the Panasonic one as OLD said. Reason being that the SONY doesn;t have an optical input (according to the manual) so the optical on the Panny, along with the integration with the Panasonic TV would appear to be the best match. In my last post, if you replace SONY with Panny then then connectivity is still right.

Just my opinion though.

No probs, glad to help.

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark,

I have just sent you another pm. But god knows what happened to the first one and there is no mention of it being sent in either the out box or the sent box. :roll: I might be going bleeding senile.

I'll be in touch mate

Cheers

Mike