Hi-Vis Clothing and Rucksacks

[n0legs]

A matter has come up where an employer is insisting on the employees carrying a rucksack whilst they wear hi-vis jackets. The employer has obtained some hi-vis rucksacks.
The issue I see is that a large portion of the hi-vis jacket will be covered at the rear and the shoulder straps of the rucksack will cover the over shoulder reflective strips of the jacket.
The jackets are mandatory and are regulated by highway laws and HSE rules. The jackets need to conform to BS EN471, use in a professional environment, whereas the rucksacks do not. At best the reflective material on the rucksacks only needs to conform to BS EN1150 and the layout of the reflective strips in no way matches that of a hi-vis jacket.

I have exhausted all the avenues I can think of ( I do have the option of phoning the HSE in the morning ). I have checked in my Chapter 8 and HAUC spec books, I have looked all over the web but can't get a satisfactory answer about this matter.

Does anyone here have a view or comments ?

 

[RogerBoyle]

Its a hi-vis rucksack :duno:

I see loads of cyclists using them in the mornings around here, I certainly don't have a problem seeing them

Don't most rucksacks have the option to be carried like a normal bag as well ???( yes I know it defeats the purpose of it being a rucksack LOL)

apart from the discrepancy with the BS numbers. I have to ask Why do you think its dangerous ???? they are still Hi-vis

 

[John15]

Why are the employees carrying a rucksack while at work?

John

 

[DiscoStu]

I do t know where this has come from but it seems sensible that if you have to wear a hi viz jacket then should you need to carry a rucksack then that should also be hi viz otherwise it renders the jacket pretty useless. I can't see why people would be forced to carry a rucksack though so I assume there is some sort of requirement? Unless it's a case of, if you want to carry a rucksack then it must be a hi viz one?

 

[Harbo]

Check it out with HSE - they are the ones that can issue enforcements or prosecute?
Do you have to carry the rucksack at all times - lots of non hi vis bags and other equipment are carried by folks on sites without any issues?
Anyway it will be your employers who get the blame especially if you've pointed out these issues.

Rod

 

[Boatfixer]

Sounds to me like the employees are working in an area where high vis to a certain standard is required. The rucksacks may be shiny and visible but if they obscure the required high vis components of the jacket then I would have thought this is not permissible.

Once years ago I was working on a gas mains inspection next to a railway. I had my British Gas orange coat on and workers on the railway side of the fence had their British Rail orange coats on. I was not allowed to cross the fence line as my orange coat was a different shade of orange. The railway supervisor explained that a train driver looks out for workers on the line in their coats but as mine looked different he might not register it immediately and subconsciously as a hazard.

 

[finneyb]

Get a raincover for the rucksack same material as the Hi Vis jacket and your problem is solved.

Brian

 

[Harbo]

I used to have several sets - Saturn Yellow with orange stripes for highways and Orange for other sites who worked in that colour.
We also had a set for railways which was fastened with poppers so could be ripped off safely if caught by passing trains etc!!

Rod

 

[ColeyS1]

Always makes me laugh seeing people wearing hi-vis clothing that's so dirty they'd be more noticeable wearing black

 

[Harbo]

When I first worked on site many moons ago - black donkey jackets were the standard piece of clothing!
But waterproofs were often yellow.

Rod

 

[n0legs]

Thanks for all the comments guys.
The staff have to wear the Hi-Vis due to them constantly being at work on the motorway and this clothing needs to be Level 2 Class 3.
The carrying of the rucksack has come about due to the companies health & safety reps saying that they object to staff actually carrying something, the company thought the answer would be to have staff use a rucksack ( why they consider this not carrying something is beyond me ).
For those not aware the issue of Hi-Vis on the highway is one that is taken seriously, cleanliness, condition, wearing of, are all important. The old coal men apparently caused problems, due to them technically working on the highway but constantly covering up their Hi-Vis by the way they used to carry the coal sacks on their backs.

The main issue is that by carrying something on your back of a lower reflective standard that covers up the conforming/correct standard Hi-Vis are the staff at greater risk.
I can't mention names or places at the moment but the workplace is one that is operated 24/7, with constant traffic. The issue of carrying something on their person is just one element of a bigger matter and not helped by the items carried in the rucksack.
For today, ( as this rucksack issue is being trialed today as part of a bigger trial ) the rucksack will be carried as a holdall so the issue with the Hi-Vis has been overcome. The health & safety reps have had to agree for the purpose of the trial the staff will have to carry something.
Again thanks guys, if I can post a bit more I will.

 

[mseries]

Always makes me laugh seeing people wearing hi-vis clothing that's so dirty they'd be more noticeable wearing black

Made me laugh when I saw a few American soldiers in Atlanta airport, wearing camoflage clothing, carrying hi-viz rucksacs. You either want to be seen or you don't

 

[flying haggis]

I have seen military personnel in this country in full camaflouge clothing out on a training run on the highway and also wearing hi-viz jackets!!!

 

[Harbo]

Blimey - I worked on all sorts of highways including motorways (and some railways) for over 40yrs - this sounds like some jobsworth has gone mad?
You should be working behind some sort of "visible" barrier which is well signed according to the Regs. The odd bit of non visible jacket causing a safety risk is taking things to a ridiculous extreme.
They will be having you wear flashing yellow lights on your helmets next?

Rod

 

[Waka]

Is it a whim that the HS reps don't want people to carry anything? If it can be carried in a rucksack , it can be carried in a bag. I'm sure there are no HSE regs that state you can't carry anything.
One is also assuming that the HS reps have backed everything up with risk assessments that incorporate probability etc.

 

[n0legs]

Is it a whim that the HS reps don't want people to carry anything? If it can be carried in a rucksack , it can be carried in a bag. I'm sure there are no HSE regs that state you can't carry anything.
One is also assuming that the HS reps have backed everything up with risk assessments that incorporate probability etc.

No it's not a whim it's actually a serious matter.
The HS reps have done all they can but the company is insisting on trying out their new idea. It will lead to both parties being in dispute and some form of union action will most likely result.

It's money, potentially many thousands of pounds. The HS reps don't like the idea of staff carrying a large amount of money, it would obviously put the staff at risk of being robbed.
The company has had the idea that a rucksack makes the money carrying issue much more secure, ridiculous. This has brought on the issue of wearing the rucksack over the PPE, hi-vis is an absolute requirement for safely walking across the highway.
I know it all sounds a bit complicated but the company has a history of over complicating things when far more simple solutions already are in operation and do not need changing.

 

[Harbo]

Just to get this straight, are you talking about a construction Company taking cash wages to pay workmen on site (a motorway in Wales)
Or a situation where large amounts of cash are transferred across a live motorway?
Why would you be taking cash on a motorway- what about site offices?
I cannot get my head around this?

Rod

 

[n0legs]

Just to get this straight, are you talking about a construction Company taking cash wages to pay workmen on site (a motorway in Wales)
Or a situation where large amounts of cash are transferred across a live motorway?
Why would you be taking cash on a motorway- what about site offices?
I cannot get my head around this?

Rod

I have to be careful.
Not a construction company, not roadworks.
Think Wales, think of a river with a numerical sounding name, think entrance into Wales along the motorway, think a large amount of money being collected daily.
Cryptic yes but it's not a joke.

 

[nanscombe]

Why not use a small folding trolley? Place the rucksack on it (use a bungee cord if necessary) and you could push it in front of you and, since it would be lower than your Hi-Vis vest, probably would not reduce your visibility.

Either that or perhaps wrap a spare Hi-Vis vest around the rucksack.

 

[DiscoStu]

I think I'm missing the point, what is it that staff are objecting to? Is it the carrying of something or carrying a rucksack or that the rucksack has to be hi viz or that the rucksack doesn't conform to the required hi viz specification?