Help with brushable "Hamerite" paint please

[AES]

Can anyone please advise? I've used small amounts of Hammerite metal finishing paints a couple of times in the past with excellent results. Always used their aerosols for convenience - expensive I know, but for small q,s I've found it OK, and as said, very happy with results.

But now I'm stuck - it's the middle of Winter here (and started snowing - for the 5th time this year!) and I feel that I must paint outdoors if spraying (my shop is in the cellar of the house and I share it with the oil-fired central heating plant, washing machine and drier, gardening tools, etc.

I'm half way through a job which I really need to finish so bought a couple of small tins of the brushable stuff. OK, it was "only" from the local DIY emporium but when I asked what to thin the stuff with I was told you can't (and the tins says nothing about thinners either).

As I more or less expected when I opened the tins, both were pretty thick - not exactly jelly but if it had been any other type of "gloss/oil" paint I'd have thinned it with white spirit or similar before trying to brush it. But lacking any thinners info I just went ahead and Yes, you've guessed it, it's dried (very nicely) but with a finish which looks just like it's been spread on with a slightly sharpened telegraph pole!

So can anyone help re suitable thinners for Hammerite gloss black and aluminium please?

As this is a finishing Q really I've repeated this in the Finishing section.

Thanks in advance for any help (Yes, I realise that my 1st job is to get the "finished" Hammerite off the job and start again - oh Happy Days)!

AES

 

[deserter]

Hammerite is xylene based, hence the special brush cleaner you can buy for it. Now here's the thing, to the best of my knowledge it can't actually be thinned successfully, mainly because you can't buy a can of xylene, however most paints will thin with heat, that is to say if you fill a suitable pan/bowl with boiling water remove the lid from the paint and leave it stood in the water (obviously making sure the water can't get in the paint), the paint will thin to a better consistency to apply.
Another often overlooked thing with hammerite is the re-cote time, if you check the tin it will say something along the lines of re apply after 2 hours but before 24 hours. This is important because as hammerite cures it undergoes a chrmical reaction, if you re apply it too late it will leave a finish similar to that of bitumen applied as you say with a telegraph pole.

Not sure if any of this helps, but if you need more info call the helpline in the tin which expending on the age of the tin could be either ICI or if its a newer tin Akso Nobel.


~Nil carborundum illegitemi~

 

[Phil Pascoe]

For my Hammerite, I've got.........wait for it.........Hammerite thinners - it thins perfectly well. You can clean brushes in certain other thinners,but not thin the paint. For the record QD 90 is thought by some to be a better paint, and in our locality it's cheaper. It helps to warm the paint before use, as well.

 

[AES]

What a great Forum this is (i.e. members are). You can get sensible answers to just about any Q, no matter how daft!

@deserter:

Thanks a lot. What an obvious soluition that is - "Why didn't I think of that?" - especially AFTER somone else has told you! :lol:

Actually I SHOULD have thought of it because that's EXACTLY how I handle all aerosol paints (shake for a timed 60 secs after the ball starts knocking - a timed 60 secs, not when yer arm gets tired or you get bored - into a bucket of hot water until the contents feel warm to the touch - another timed 60 secs shaking, then off we go).

Anyway I'll try to get some of the special thinners/xylene, otherwise it's out with the hot water. Thanks a lot.

@phil.p:

I've never heard of QD 90 before. I'll Google n see if I can find a manufacturer & local distributor. Thanks.

Krgds
AES

 

[Hutzul]

I'm pretty sure that paint manufacturers sell it, cos I've got a 5litre tin of it. Must have got it years back from Shipley Paint, aka Manor Coating Systems. We used to thin fast drying enamel paint by mixing with xlene so we could use in spray guns, never had any problems.

I do remember mixing xlene with Hammerite Smooth and it worked ok np.

Good luck

 

[AES]

@ Hutzul,

Thanks a lot, I'll try to get some. Clearly I need to find a "proper" paint specialist.

I must say I was wondering how one goes about spraying the stuff "properly" (i.e. non aerosol) but when I asked I got blank looks - but as said originally, that was in the local DIY emporium - there at least the staff do have some interest and do try to help, in marked contrast to most others here in Switzerland - and UK too I read.

Cheers
AES

 

[WoodMangler]

Just google 'Hammerite Thinners', lots available...

 

[deserter]

Qd90 is traditional machine paint, it's awesome stuff flawless finish etc. but doesn't treat rust in the same way as hammerite.

Don't want to sound know it all. I used to sell paint for a living prior to retraining, the company I worked for sent us on training courses with many paint companies.


~Nil carborundum illegitemi~

 

[AES]

Many thanks deserter. No, you don't sound "know it all" at all - IMHO it's by sharing our various bits n pieces of specialised knowledge that this Forum becomes ever more valuable.

Cheers

AES

 

[Eric The Viking]

Hammerite's formulation has changed significantly in recent years. Personally I don't think it's worth the premium price any more, and I've had real problems with the spray can variety. The spray-on stuff had to change, because of the EU directive banning CFC propellants (and cellulose). I don't know the chemistry of the current stuff, but the change almost certainly was because of the legislation, not "product improvement".

I now use the Flag equivalent from Toolstation (who also sell Xylene, incidentally, in 500ml screw-top tins), and that works well for me. I think it's closer to the old Hammerite formulation than the present branded stuff. also I like the green coloured version, which makes a nice machine paint (just about to do the planer in it, and possibly the table saw base, too). It's only in tins - it may be sprayable, but I don't have a suitable spray gun, and there aren't any aerosol cans sold as far as I can tell.

My sister-in-law is an industrial paint chemist, and the subject of Hammerite has come up on quite a few occasions. Apparently the rust thing is simply because it keys well to the roughness. She says it doesn't actually treat the rust, just encapsulates it so it doesn't spread. It's certainly true you haver to get all the rust, twice, or it doesn't inhibit at all. The old formula used to pinhole as it dried, and I think the new stuff is slightly worse for this, especially as it doesn't wet the surface as well as the older.

With cans, I assume you know the old trick. It worked superbly with cellulose sprays, and still helps a lot with the newer formulae: 20 minutes or more standing in a bucket of piping hot water before use, weighted down with kitchen weights. Shake incredibly well, before and after the bucket.

And put the spray cans in there, too ;-)

E.

 

[AES]

@ Eric the Viking,

Thanks for your inputs. Yes I've heard that Hammerite isn't as good as it was but as I posted originally I've used their aerosols a few times (both old & new) and have been very pleased each time. I stress used only for small bits & pieces, never a whole machine. Same this time, I'm doing (trying to do!) some small metal bits for a kiddies pedal car I'm making.

Yes, just as you say, aerosols require a few tricks - V good shake up, warming, regular re-shaking, keeping nozzles clear (and saving old ones), plus, as ever, good prep. Being an old-fashioned aeromodeller I'm fairly familiar with the dodges and apart from their silly high prices I get on well with aerosols generally. I also spray with a gun/compressor but as I originally posted, only outside (in the car port, suitably protected!). But clearly spraying outside is not possible at present and here it won't be possible until after the snow's gone, roughly March/April. That's why I'm trying the brushable Hammerite for the 1st time ever.

The current job is mainly new or new-ish mild steel and as there are welded bits involved I've had the flap wheels and angle grinder on the bits anyway. So it was no problem to remove the few bits of surface rust elsewhere on the parts. The main reason I chose Hammerite (apart from previous good experiences) was the fact that I like the "slightly speckled" finish plus it's tough long lasting attributes. Ideal for a kid's toy.

Obviously the thinner cannot be "posted" so being here in Switzerland I have to look around. In fact there's an Azko Nobel dealer in the back streets of the local market town but when I tried yesterday he was closed due sickness (small one man band of the old-fashioned shop/hardware store variety). No probs, I'll find some even if I have to go over the border into Germany (30 mins drive).

Cheers AES

 

[Eric The Viking]

Sorry - didn't notice your location!

Great place Basel - stayed with friends (who live there) a couple of years ago.

E.

 

[shipbadger]

Interesting to hear that the formulation of Hammerite has changed. Shouldn't be surprised really as nearly every type of paint I use has changed (not often for the better) in recent years. I've sprayed 'brushing' Hammerite through a spray gun using Hammerite's own thinners many times over the years. For cleaning I've always used acetone (propanone) as a 5litre can is much cheaper than Hammerite thinners (used to be a form of 'trike' at one stage). Acetone is usually available from firms that deal in resins for glass fibre work as it's used to clean the tools used. Mail ordered my last lot from a firm in Cornwall (CFS?). Take appropriate precautions when using acetone, if in doubt look them up.

Tony Comber

 

[AES]

@shipbadger:

BRILLIANT, thanks! Here (Switzerland) you can get acetone in any DIY emporium & lots of other places. I use it as a general de-greaser and for thinning some (model aero) paints. Had no idea you can use it on Hammerite - I've got about 2 x half litre tins in stock so I'll try it tomorrow. From what you say it should change the Hammerite "treacle" I've got into something I can brush (can't spray outside at present, snow all over the place). Will it work on Hammerite Aluminium paint too?

Cheers - you Sir are what is known as "a scholar and a gent"! :lol:

AES

 

[deserter]

Be very careful with any aluminium based paint. Only ever stir it don't shake as it becomes explosive.
I have seen aluminium wood primer explode first hand and believe me it's very messy.


~Nil carborundum illegitemi~

 

[AES]

@deserter:

Thanks, something else I didn't know. I'll take care.

Krgds
AES

 

[heatherw]

I've sprayed Hammerite too, and here in Spain you can get something called Universal Thinners which works really well, You don't seem to be able to get it in the UK, but you might be able to get it in Switzerland. Here it comes in all sizes, 250ml, 500ml. 1000ml, 5 litres and bigger and you can get it in any paint shop, DIY store etc. I think it has xylene in it, but there are a lot of other noxious ingredients in it too. Toluene rings a bell, but the label's in very small print and my eyesight is worsening. handy stuff though.

 

[deserter]

That sounds about right Toulene was banned from use in the UK in about 2002, hence why people cherish old tins of Briwax.


~Nil carborundum illegitemi~

 

[Graham Orm]

I use cellulose thinners to clean my Hammerite brushes, can't this be used to thin?

 

[AES]

Once again, thanks for all the help chaps.

Unfortunately my good lady has been in bed ill for the last 1+ week so I've only had the odd moment to try stuff in the shop.

As said, I have Acetone in stock and also cellulose thinners but didn't try either of those initially because the smell of Hammerite is definitely not cellulose or Acetone so I thought that would be a No-No as thinner. But when I get the chance I'll try both.

Like Spain we also have "Universal Brush Cleaner" freely available here. In fact that was what I used to clean the 2 brushes after my 1st disastrous attempt to brush the paint. Trouble was that I only had a tiny drop left in a small tin which just about cleaned the brushes but wasn't enough to thin the paint with, even if I'd have thought of it. I'll get some more when I can get out and about (we have enough snow on the ground here to make it a case of necessity only - unlike Spain I guess!).

Again, thanks to everyone for all the help and tips. I'm sure that with all your help I'll be OK once I can get in the shop.

Said before, but what a great bunch of people there are on this Forum. =D> :lol:

Krgds
AES