Help Needed -Tablesaw Not Working! NOW FIXED!!!!

[Philly]

HI Folks
I've had a good few years of use from my Xcaliber 806 10 inch table saw (a Delta Unisaw clone). Today, after making a few cuts, it failed to start. It makes a humming noise and the blade fails to turn. I've checked the blade turns freely (which it does) and there seems to be no obvious physical problem.
After a quick call to Woodford, they suggested it was either the condenser on the motor or possibly the switch playing up. I've just checked and the humming noise is coming from the area of the motor not the switch.
So - any suggestions? Is the condenser an easy part to replace? Do I need to get a sparky to check it out first?
Cheers
Philly

 

[OLD]

Condenser you can prove by spinning by hand ( not always easy practically)then switching on while still spinning and it will run.
Yes its easy wire for wire.

 

[Chems]

Condenser you can prove by spinning by hand ( not always easy practically)then switching on while still spinning and it will run.
Yes its easy wire for wire.

That sounds like a HLE (Hand Losing Event) if ever I've heard of one!

 

[9fingers]

Philly,

There is also a switch inside the motor used only on starting. This could have failed and will not be that easy fix. However most likely is the capacitor.
I have the same saw as you so I could have a look at mine and get you a replacement capacitor (=condenser) if you like.
As Old says it is possible to start the motor by spinning it (remove blade!!) but this will not tell you if it is the capacitor or the internal switch.

Do you have a meter of any sort than can measure resistance (ohms)

If so let me know and I'll tell you how to decide if it is the internal switch or not.

Bob

 

[CHJ]

With care flicking the blade with a stick should start it spinning if it's just the capacitor.

If not happy doing it with blade fitted then remove it and spin motor or arbor shaft by hand.

Capacitor is just a two wire job, may be mounted under cover on outside of motor or in separate junction box. Use chocolate strip to connect new capacitor.

Edit: see Bob has noted Centrifugal Switched start so I defer to him to help you.

If in doubt about whether it is just a starting capacitor or start/run rated make sure replacement is run rated. Specification is usually on the can, capacity value not too critical, bigger will do as long as it will fit in housing, but working voltage must be high enough. expect to see 5-10-15 or 20 mf. 350-400volt

 

[Philly]

Thanks Chaps!
Just tried the "flick start" using a piece of wood - no go. Also, humming has now stopped altogether :?
Pressed go, spun the blade and it then ran backwards slightly??
Does this make sense?
Cheers
Phil

 

[neilc]

Definitely sounds like the capacitor has given up on you. Its a simple job to replace. As CHJ states it usually mounted on the outside of the motor. My advice is to replace like with like, any motor rewind shop will be able to supply you with one.
Regards,
Neil

 

[9fingers]

OK Don't panic, I expect the cut out in the starter switch has triggered as a result of the high current taken by a non - starting motor.

This may reset by itself in a few minutes or need it's cover taking off and resetting manually

I'll have a look at mine and advise.

Bob

You can still do the test I advised via PM

 

[TheTiddles]

Another vote for capacitor and blown fuse. A big capacitor is about £20 so don't panic yet

Aidan

 

[9fingers]

With care flicking the blade with a stick should start it spinning if it's just the capacitor.

If not happy doing it with blade fitted then remove it and spin motor or arbor shaft by hand.

Capacitor is just a two wire job, may be mounted under cover on outside of motor or in separate junction box. Use chocolate strip to connect new capacitor.

Edit: see Bob has noted Centrifugal Switched start so I defer to him to help you.

If in doubt about whether it is just a starting capacitor or start/run rated make sure replacement is run rated. Specification is usually on the can, capacity value not too critical, bigger will do as long as it will fit in housing, but working voltage must be high enough. expect to see 5-10-15 or 20 mf. 350-400volt

The motor starting capacitor is MUCH bigger than this Chas.

400 mfd 250 volt AC electrolytic. This saw has 3 horses under the hood!!


Philly, the reading you should get doing my test in the PM is 1.7 ohms - a bit lower that I thought. If the switch if bu88ered then the reading should be open circuit.

I'm off to look up a mates rates price for a capacitor !

Bob

 

[Philly]

Update......

Many, many thanks to Bob 9fingers for his help in sorting this out - I took the motor round to his workshop and he stripped it down and found the problem - the internal switch had half a dozen tablespoons of dust in it! Expensive replacement parts narrowly averted
After a little struggling to replace the motor back in the saw she is all happy again!
Again, thanks to Bob for his help - I am deeply in your debt!
Philly

 

[Paul Chapman]

Good Old Bob =D>

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[RogerS]

I'll jump in and also thank Bob for fixing my arbor. ccasion5:

 

[9fingers]

Only too happy to help Gents!

I continue to learn lots from forum members and so I'm happy use my skills and knowledge to help in return.

I'm off the see Big Soft Moose (Pete) tomorrow and hopefully can work some magic on his morticer motor which is currently refusing to play!
This one feels a bit thorny so I must take my book of best spells with me :lol: :lol:

Bob

 

[big soft moose]

I'm off the see Big Soft Moose (Pete) tomorrow and hopefully can work some magic on his morticer motor which is currently refusing to play!
This one feels a bit thorny so I must take my book of best spells with me :lol: :lol:

Bob

looking forward to it bob - by the way there is pipper all in the way of mechanics tools at our workshop - though hopefully my assistant andy is bringing a spanner roll so it might be an idea to bring a tool box in addtion to the magic spells

 

[9fingers]

Pete,

WOT :shock: A workshop without tools. I know you are located out in the sticks but.....


What sort of age machine? Metric or imperial nuts & bolts?

Bob

 

[CHJ]

expect to see 5-10-15 or 20 mf. 350-400volt

The motor starting capacitor is MUCH bigger than this Chas.

400 mfd 250 volt AC electrolytic. This saw has 3 horses under the hood!!
Bob

Forgot we were talking about Big Boy Toys, haven't dealt with machines in that range since I retired 15+ yrs ago. there again with some stuff in the 50+ HP or 1 MW consumption we tended to bring spares in on a fork lift so didn't get to note finite part details.

 

[9fingers]

As far as I can see, motor design is exploiting the developments in capacitor design that allow many more microfarads in a given volume.

I had another 3HP machine in pieces yesterday and that had a 600mF capacitor for starting. The start winding was connected to the centre of the run winding thus allowing use of a 125v ac capacitor. Another cost saving!

Motors seems to have less iron and copper in them and run far hotter now that insulation will stand the high temperatures better.

I suppose it is progress!

Bob

 

[CHJ]

I suppose it is progress!
Bob

Save on production costs, screw the maximum profit out of the customer and let him pay the costs of inefficiency in power consumption and servicing downtime.

The heat problems associated with smaller cores is something that really bothers me with some of the modern motors and even more so miniature transformers which often become to hot to handle.

I rewound a transformer a few weeks ago and was really stuck at first because the figures I had for core area and appropriate turns per square inch and wire diameter just did not computed, had to go scrounge some more modern wire with higher temp coating and 2 gauges down on my figures, even then struggled to get enough turns in for my liking.

Should have stuck to my decision several years ago to quit messing with modern stuff :roll:

 

[big soft moose]

Pete,

WOT :shock: A workshop without tools. I know you are located out in the sticks but.....


What sort of age machine? Metric or imperial nuts & bolts?

Bob

its about ten years old I think - its been with the project longer than i have so i dont know for sure.

and i think the bolts are metric but i wouldnt swear to it.

the 'shop is set up for sign and bench making only so has woodwork tools but no mechanics gear - that is kept at our other workshop some 30 miles distant where we keep our mowers etc

like i said we'll have spanners and probably a set of allen keys but we are short on anything more exotic like stars, stilsons, mole grips etc.