Hand planes renovation advice sought

[Gebbly]

Hi All,
Whilst doing some DIY I recently discovered my grandfathers old shed and some of the tools slowly rusting away there and immediately started renovating them using some of the advice found on these forums. I have now also managed to find an old Stanley Bailey no4 at a car boot which was in fairly good condition except for some light rust. I have been cleaning this up with scotch pads, various cleaning solutions such as Hammerite and Restore Rust Remover and judicious amounts of elbow grease. Most of the metal has been cleaned up and oiled. This is all being done with a view to the tools being working implements so durability and functionality is more important than shine.

I have read various postings here about the subject of renovating hand planes but still had a few questions.

1. The tote and knob had some sort of coating on that was flaking horribly. I have sanded these down back to the wood and now need to coat them in something to protect them. I have seen some mention of linseed oil for wood restoration. Some people talk of shellac or clear varnish. Some mention waxes of various sorts. What would be a suitable substance to put on the knob and tote to give it good use and environment protection? If possible I would like whatever I use to leave the wood looking its natural colour as I quite like its current look.

2. After reading some discussions about repainting old hand planes I was a little unclear on whether it was an aesthetic thing or if it added to the planes durability. I quite like the look of the metal now it has been cleaned down and am not fussed about recoating in something like engine enamel (which I saw discussed somewhere). However I am unclear whether the painting in engine enamel aids protection against the elements if so perhaps I should do it to prolong the life of the plane? Or would it be ok being cleaned down and rubbed with 3in1 oil?

3. I see discussions online about bevel up or bevel down planes. Is a plane designed to be one or the other? If so which should my stanley bailey no4 be? (In my eagerness to start renovating I took it apart but didnt note which way up the blade was, oops.)

4. I have read many articles and watched many videos (I find Paul Sellers particularly interesting) on sharpening the tips of blades. But not much mention on what, if anything, to do with the underside of the blade. For example in one of Paul Sellers videos he talks through sharpening the tip but says he doesnt have to spend too much time on the underside of a blade when sharpening as he always "polishes" his blades when he first gets them. Is the "polishing" processes the same as the sharpening, slowly working the flat back of the blade on various grits of wet and dry?

Any advice at all about my questions or the renovation in general greatly appreciated.

thanks
Gebbly

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Hi Gebbly, and welcome to the forum!

To get straight to some answers:

1) Finish to the wooden bits of planes is really a matter of personal choice. I like a Danish oil finish, because it leaves the handles feeling like wood, but some prefer a laquer or varnish.

2) Again - it's personal choice. The planes will work just fine if cleaned and left 'as found', but a coat of paint is perfectly in order if you prefer a pristine appearance. I'd think twice about slathering it in 3-in-1, because all the dust and shavings in Christendom will stick to it like glue!

3) Stanley Bailey planes are 'bevel down'. When reassembling the plane, hold the blade flat with the bevelled side underneath, and place the cap-iron on the flat face. Screw the two together, then insert them carefully into the plane with the bevelled face of the iron in contact with the 'frog' (slopey casting with machined surface) and the cap iron on top. Then slot the lever cap into place over the iron/capiron, and snap the lever down to secure everything.

4) Oo-er! We're into an area that causes endless arguments, here! Yes, to give a really good cutting edge, both the surfaces that meet to give the edge must be smoothed to the same degree, so 'preparing' the flat back of a plane iron or chisel is essential for a good edge. For plane irons, you can either work the surface down through grades of abrasive until you reach the same grade you intend to finish the bevel with (which can be a slow old job sometimes) or use David Charlesworth's 'ruler trick' - place a thin ruler or similar along the edge of the honing stone, and place the plane iron at right angles over it. That brings just the edge in contact with the stone, and shortens the job a lot. (Don't do that with chisels - they need to be flatter right to the tip.)

Hope you enjoy getting to know your planes - the smell of freshly-planed pine is lovely!

 

[Gebbly]

Hi CheshireChappie,
Thanks for such a fast reply. So to follow on:

1. I like the sound of leaving the handles feeling like wood. Is this at a cost to durability? Would this be something that would need to be re-applied every few weeks?

2. Ah, I hadnt thought about waste sticking to the plane. Now you mention it, I have a mitre saw and anywhere there is grease or oil is a whatsit to keep clean. In that case what should be done to the metal once it is all clean to try and prevent future rust whilst keeping it usable? (instead of using 3in1 oil)

3 and 4. Thats very clear thanks. Just as well you mentioned not using that ruler thing on a chisel. That would have been my next mistake

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I think it's fair to say that Danish oil isn't quite as bomb-proof as, say, polyurethane varnish, but it's not too bad. It can be easily be repaired by rubbing on another coat or two. I tend to apply two coats to bare wood, sand very lightly with a fine abrasive, and apply a third coat. Allow to harden for a day or two, then burnish with a cotton cloth. So far, that's done fine for me - you only need to apply extra if you think it looks a bit shabby.

By the way, some people use a specialist formulation for gun-stocks called Tru-Oil. I've not used it, but it certainly looks good in pictures, and those that have used it swear by it.

The best way to keep planes and other tools rust free is to keep them indoors, if you can. That, of course, isn't always possible, depending on the domestic authorities! There are quite a few ways to try and keep rust at bay if tools have to live in shed or garage, some quite complex (wooden cabinet with low-level heater of some sort installed), others rather basic (wrap it in an oily rag). Using tools regularly helps a lot in keeping them in good order, but that's not always possible when life gets in the way!

One thing that may be worth a try is to obtain a small pot of Renaissance Wax (Ebay or Amazon are good sources). Museums and conservators use it to protect all sorts of materials; it puts a thin, tough coat of wax on the tool that doesn't affect it's function at all, but does protect it. How long it would last in 'damp shed' conditions I'm not sure, but it won't do any harm. It's not cheap, but a small pot goes a long way.

 

[GLFaria]

I think it's fair to say that Danish oil isn't quite as bomb-proof as, say, polyurethane varnish, but it's not too bad. It can be easily be repaired by rubbing on another coat or two. I tend to apply two coats to bare wood, sand very lightly with a fine abrasive, and apply a third coat. Allow to harden for a day or two, then burnish with a cotton cloth. So far, that's done fine for me - you only need to apply extra if you think it looks a bit shabby.

By the way, some people use a specialist formulation for gun-stocks called Tru-Oil. I've not used it, but it certainly looks good in pictures, and those that have used it swear by it.

Tru-Oil is ok, but the end result is quite different from Danish oil. Tru-Oil finish is glossy, fast-curing, much less "in the wood" than Danish oil, wich in the end is a variation on BLO or tung oil or both (for instance, you could call by the name Danish oil the Behandla brand sold by IKEA; according to the label it contains both tung oil and linseed oil - and a number of other products, I guess). Tru-Oil gives a better protection and requires less maintenance than Danish oil.
It mostlyl depends on wether you prefer a shiny, varnish-like surface, or a matte, wood like surface.

 

[Jacob]

Hi All,
Whilst doing some DIY I recently discovered my grandfathers old shed and some of the tools slowly rusting away there and immediately started renovating them using some of the advice found on these forums. I have now also managed to find an old Stanley Bailey no4 at a car boot which was in fairly good condition except for some light rust. I have been cleaning this up with scotch pads, various cleaning solutions such as Hammerite and Restore Rust Remover and judicious amounts of elbow grease. Most of the metal has been cleaned up and oiled. This is all being done with a view to the tools being working implements so durability and functionality is more important than shine.

I would dust/scrape off the rust lightly, wipe over with linseed oil (half n half with turps - real turps smells nicer) and that's it. 2 minutes.
It'll polish up with use

....
1. The tote and knob had some sort of coating on that was flaking horribly. I have sanded these down back to the wood and now need to coat them in something to protect them. ....

If you must remove it then paint stripper is least drastic, then oil as above. If you are into old tools linseed oil/turps is something to splash about everywhere

2. After reading some discussions about repainting old hand planes I was a little unclear on whether it was an aesthetic thing or if it added to the planes durability. I quite like the look of the metal now it has been cleaned down and am not fussed about recoating in something like engine enamel (which I saw discussed somewhere). However I am unclear whether the painting in engine enamel aids protection against the elements if so perhaps I should do it to prolong the life of the plane? Or would it be ok being cleaned down and rubbed with 3in1 oil?

Don't bother. Just linseed oil.

3. I see discussions online about bevel up or bevel down planes. Is a plane designed to be one or the other? If so which should my stanley bailey no4 be? (In my eagerness to start renovating I took it apart but didnt note which way up the blade was, oops.)

bevel down, or "BD" for short

4. I have read many articles and watched many videos (I find Paul Sellers particularly interesting) on sharpening the tips of blades. But not much mention on what, if anything, to do with the underside of the blade. For example in one of Paul Sellers videos he talks through sharpening the tip but says he doesnt have to spend too much time on the underside of a blade when sharpening as he always "polishes" his blades when he first gets them. Is the "polishing" processes the same as the sharpening, slowly working the flat back of the blade on various grits of wet and dry?

Any advice at all about my questions or the renovation in general greatly appreciated.

thanks
Gebbly

By "underside" I guess you mean "face". Flat = face, bevel = back.
Don't get drawn into the modern fashion for flattening and polishing. It's time consuming, pointless and unsustainable. It needs to be flat for a few mm from the edge to under the cap iron - that's all.
This is achieved automatically every time you turn the blade face down to take off a burr during sharpening. You put more pressure towards the edge end to achieve much the same as Dave's "ruler trick". but without the ruler, easier and more precise.
No you don't need to work through grit sizes of wet n dry - you don't need emery paper at all.
Keep it simple! Do as little as possible - especially at first until you know what you are doing, or you might make it worse.

 

[bugbear]

4. I have read many articles and watched many videos (I find Paul Sellers particularly interesting) on sharpening the tips of blades. But not much mention on what, if anything, to do with the underside of the blade. For example in one of Paul Sellers videos he talks through sharpening the tip but says he doesnt have to spend too much time on the underside of a blade when sharpening as he always "polishes" his blades when he first gets them. Is the "polishing" processes the same as the sharpening, slowly working the flat back of the blade on various grits of wet and dry?

If you want to stay with Sellers, here's his answer to your question:

http://paulsellers.com/2012/02/sharpeni ... ch-planes/

To begin with you must first lap the flat face of the cutting iron on a dead flat surface to give a clear and polished face for about the first 3/8”- 1/2” from the cutting edge. Then polish this face on the strop to a mirror finish. This is the last time you will need to do this as this face does not wear. I go through the grits on my 3” x 8” EZE Lap diamond sharpening plates as you can see.

Edit; I also note that Seller uses the terms "back" and "face" for the flat side, so your nomenclature is fine.

e.g.

http://paulsellers.com/2011/12/stay-set ... -stay-set/

You need access to a larger surface area because the whole of the back of the iron needs to remain flat, not just the short area.

BugBear

 

[MIGNAL]

Danish Oil may well be just the same as polyurethane varnish. The stuff I've used certainly contains Tung Oil, some other drying Oil and a modern resin. It says so on the tin. Sounds like Polyurethane varnish to me. It's simply that it is laced with huge amounts of solvents so that it can be rubbed on, rubbed off. Put enough coats on and you can get it to a full on gloss finish, quite easily to the level that you can with Tru Oil or any other brushing varnish. I've had Danish Oil to that level. No one bothers because it's too many applications and it's often seen as a matte finish - which it normally is.

 

[AndyT]

A quick comment on your question no 2. Where old japanning has disappeared you have several options. In my opinion, the worst looking choice is to use paint. The original finish was different. It can be replicated using asphaltum - search for posts on here by Derek Cohen and Jimi63. But a much simpler choice, to go over the japanning that remains, stabilise it and prevent any further deterioration, is to brush on some boiled linseed oil, thinned a little with some turps. I used this on the relatively large castings on my 1880s treadle powered lathe, very successfully, and have used it on planes.
Yet another option is Zeebrite grate polish which I used on a Union transitional plane, also shown on here.

 

[Jacob]

Keep it simple!
Basic rule of conservation - do absolutely as little as you have to. Once it's gone it's gone.

 

[Gebbly]

Hi All,
Thanks for all the useful feedback everyone. Unfortunately due to space limitations the home for the tools will be either a wooden garden shed or a concrete garage. So its a case of the best I can do.

It sounds like Danish oil might be the ticket for the knob and tote. I quite like the look and tactile feel of naked wood so prefer a matt finish. Are there any particular brands or types that anyone would advocate? (Ideally something that gives some protection and leaves the wood looking as natural as possible). As for application I am assuming it is a case of applying thin coats and rubbing down in between each one?

I certainly agree that I want to do as little as possible when it comes to removing material and try and maintain as much of the metal as possible.

Sounds like linseed oil is quite popular for a thin coat over the metalwork. Does this grab less waste particles than 3in1 as pointed out by cheshirechappie?

...<a google or 2 later>...

Whilst doing a quick search on linseed oil I came across a posting by Paul Sellers entitled "3-in-1-yes-boiled-or-raw-linseed-oil-no" (no permissions to post links but google should find it for you) which talks of the fire hazard which is a bit off-putting.

Are there any other alternatives to 3in1 or linseed oil? Or is 3in1 ok as long as it is just a wipe with a rag with 3in1 on it? I could go the rennaisance wax route but I have read some suggestions that wax doesnt really offer a barrier to rust as well as oils do?

 

[Jacob]

Fire hazard very remote - I've seen it demo'ed but never heard of it happening accidentally. Basically oily rags should be kept enclosed (jam jar etc) after use, or in hot weather theoretically they can warm up and smoulder as the oil oxidises.
I always use raw as the boiled sets thicker a bit like a varnish. The raw sets too, but slowly and thin.
But in normal circs rust isn't a problem and you don't need to protect tools.

NB you are probably over thinking it - any old oil will do, even chip fat.

 

[Gebbly]

Hi Jacob, yes I probably am over-thinking it a bit (bit of a habit of mine) but I'm hoping that if I can work out a good routine that its something I can re-apply to other tools like the bunch of saws that are awaiting tlc. Since I have already wiped the metal in 3in1 perhaps I'll leave it at that rather than faff about any more. I guess over the next month or so I'll see if its an issue.

I keep my 3in1 rag in a jar for no other reason than it was what my dad told me, I now understand the reason why

Thanks very much everyone for all the helpful information. I think my first attempt at a hand plane restore will be to leave the 3in1 on and not fuss anymore and apply danish oil to the wood (any good or bad brands?) and see how that goes.

It will then be on to a Record no6 I picked up at the same car boot sale.

 

[Richard T]

I use raw linseed on wood and 3in1 on metal.

As Jacob says raw linseed takes longer to 'dry' so penetrates further and when it does dry, goes very solid. It's the base of oil paint and of putty - very hard setting.

The story about spontaneously combusting rags applies to boiled linseed oil, although I have never heard of it actually happening in real life. I have put used rags covered in boiled linseed in the (unlit) woodburner before now and waited for days ... nothing. So much for my automatic fire lighting invention.

 

[bugbear]

It sounds like Danish oil might be the ticket for the knob and tote. I quite like the look and tactile feel of naked wood so prefer a matt finish. Are there any particular brands or types that anyone would advocate? (Ideally something that gives some protection and leaves the wood looking as natural as possible). As for application I am assuming it is a case of applying thin coats and rubbing down in between each one?

Much easier than that - wipe on a thin layer with a cloth, make sure it soaks in (it should) wipe of any excess after 10 minutes (and make a mental note to use a thinner layer next time).

Takes around 4-20 hours to dry, ready for another wipe. Heat and/or sunlight (UV) speed this up.

The process take a lot of time, but very little effort.

if you're in more of a hurry, I can recommend a similar, but slightly more varnish loaded product - Liberon Finishing Oil.

(On re-reading, you ask for brands. I can't give you comparitive information, but Rustins
has always worked fine for me.)

BugBear

 

[Racers]

I use raw linseed on wood and 3in1 on metal.

As Jacob says raw linseed takes longer to 'dry' so penetrates further and when it does dry, goes very solid. It's the base of oil paint and of putty - very hard setting.

The story about spontaneously combusting rags applies to boiled linseed oil, although I have never heard of it actually happening in real life. I have put used rags covered in boiled linseed in the (unlit) woodburner before now and waited for days ... nothing. So much for my automatic fire lighting invention.

Last test I saw they get the best results by screwing the cloths up, the heat can't get out, I dry my Danish oil cloths flat in some thing non-flammable.

Pete

 

[carpenteire2009]

I've refinished a number of old Stanley and Record hand planes and as most users here can attest it can become quite difficult to resist the charms of an old plane at a car boot sale when you can see the potential in the rust and grime! For (rare enough) rosewood handles I would tend to strip back (whree the original finish is too far gone) to bare wood, clean and use a combination of Rustins Danish oil and boiled linseed oil, built up in many thick coats to give a natural look and feel to the wood. If beech wood handles (more usually the case) I would again strip back and if the wood grain is pretty bland and un remarkable I would refinish the lot in polyurethane varnish for a durable finish. I use Rustins, tinted varnish (I might mix a couple of colours together to get the shade I want) thinned down to be wiped on.I might apply up to 10 thin coats or more. The coats are thin so dry quickly and 3 coats could be applied in a day. I might lightly cut back between coats with some fine steel wool. Once fully cured I rub down with paste wax (Liberon) and steel wool for a smooth polish. Sounds like a lot of work but it's quick and I've been very happy with the results. Probably not what you should be doing to some vintage collector planes but for the 50s and 60s era planes that I'm working with I see no problem. I've repainted planes too, only where corrosion was a serious problem anyway as I'd always prefer the original japanning. For some modest outlay (small tins varnish, steel wool, white spirit, oil, Autosol metal polish, vinegar (for de-rusting), wax polish and rags you can rehabilitate a lot of old tools and press them into service. I've picked up plenty of old hand tools in recent years and I get the biggest thrill from cleaning them up and using them. A little tip- for my danish oil rags, I put these in a zip lock bag and stick them in the freezer. No fire hazard and they don't dry out! I applymy wipingvarnish with a small piece of sponge- this too I place in a plastic bag and store it in the freezer so it doesn't dry out between coats.

 

[MIGNAL]

Liberon finishing Oil and Rustins Danish Oil are very, very similar. Colron is also the same type of thing. Use whatever. Both contain a mixture of oils and resins. As such they finish to a harder surface finish than Linseed Oil or pure Ting Oil by itself. You need to read the msds sheet or sometimes the clues are on the back of the tin. If a Danish Oil states that it contains a mixture of Oils and resins it's really just a very thin type of Oil varnish.

 

[AndyT]

One big advantage of a basic product like linseed oil is the low price - around £3 for 500ml.

 

[Gebbly]

I think the stanley is one of the 50's-60s ones so not a rare antique. I have gone ahead with danish oil and after a couple of mentions of Liberon I picked up some Liberon Superior Danish Oil from Axminster. I heeded the warning about light coatings and put on a very sparse first coat and it feels dry to the touch after a very short time. I like the look already. Nice and matt and the wood grain pattern really shows through.

A useful tip about the zip locks in the freezer, I shall try this tomorrow after a trip to the shops.

I also gave a last light wipe with 3in1 on all the metal and a dab of grease on screw threads and have put the rest of the plane back together. After spending a little time trying to remember which screws went where It is looking rather satisfyingly nice now.

Last jobs will be the 4 or 5 coats of danish oil on knob and tote and sharpening of the iron.

Thanks so much everybody for all the helpful advice. Now to convince the missus we should visit another car boot sale