Glue For Pens

[Dieseldog]

Im sure is has been asked before but what Glue would you recommed for the brass tubes when pen making ?


Thanks Dave

 

[Jensmith]

CA or z-poxy 5 min - both recommended on here previously.
CA I've stopped using as too many tubes got stuck half way in!
Z-poxy seems good. If doing a lot in a batch use the 30min one.

 

[Paul Hannaby]

If using CA glue, five star adhesives do a slow set version which is ideal for pens - it doesn't set before you get the tube all the way in! See here http://www.shop4glue.com/slip-fit-e...rylate-cyano-glue-5-min-set-adhesive-48-c.asp

 

[Neil Farrer]

Options amongst others, as some previously stated, CA, Epoxy, Polyurethane.

Last first, Polyurethane good if you've got a very soft blank as it will expand between tube and wood to give a secure bonding, other than that it is a pain as it has a tendency as it expands and cures to push the tube out of the blank and clearing up is a nightmare (unless anyone can tell me of their secret to getting off hands etc). CA, to me is a pain, for two reasons, it is not the right consistency - yes I know you can get gel but that's too expensive, and also it has a tendency to go off to quickly or take an age and the tube can move within the blank when handling if its a delay bond. I invariably use z_poxy, have used other epoxy but find the consistency with this stuff better. Take the tube, stick a bit of potato in the end and roll the end in the glue and stick it in the blank so pushing a spare bit of glue before the blank, twist on the way in and you get a good total coverage. When I have used CA and had a blow out, close inspection shows that the bond was never 100% of the surface. Could have been me but never had the problem with Z-poxy. Also what a hassle keying the tubes every time. When you insert the tube into the blank from the centre cut (if it is a two part pen) towards the extremity and push it so that the tube is perfectly flush with the blank into which you pushed the tube, with epoxy the tube stays there, with both CA and PU it tends to wander, at least mind did.

Everyone's got their favourites, and that's mine and why!!

 

[jpt]

I use Polyurethane glue as I find it the best.

Cleaning up isnt a problem as I wear plastic gloves so it doesnt go on my hands and an old apron over my clothes so it doesnt matter if it gets on that.

My way of doing it http://woodturned.co.uk/html/gluing.html

john

 

[jumps]

having spent the last couple of days playing with some acrylic blanks I found them well suited to a medium CA glue because I found I could drill the hole extremely accurately to a fine tollerance and the tubes never once 'bound' on being inserted (as they did from time to time with timber). The use of CA glue also works best with fine fits! Now this may all be due to the current 'shop temperature of +3 keeping the CA 'just right' - time will tell. OTOH PU has worked OK as well.

I no longer use CA with timber at all, and now use PU and leave overnight - the black fingers clean up pretty quickly too

 

[nev]

Another one for PU . I too found that CA didnt give 100% coverage (possibly my application) . Tried a poxy epoxy and didnt get along with that, but it was from the pound shop!
So now i stick #-o with titebond http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalo ... CHwQ8wIwAg
or gator glue http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalo ... CFsQ8wIwAA
both have very similar working and curing times, both foam a little and both can sometimes allow the tubes to move while setting, so i place mine with the ends against something immovable (with a bit of paper in between).

and for cleaning - acetone works a treat especially when the glue is still wet.

 

[Dieseldog]

~Thanks for the replys and some great info there
think i'll try this Gator glue
never heard of it before so worth a try

Cheers Dave

 

[Hitch]

Ive been using a one hour setting CA for mine, only once had a blank jam half way in, my fault for not checking the fit first!

My technique is to hold the blank at a slight angle, over a bin, put the low viscosity glue inside and rotate the blank, whilst pouring the glue in. Can see the 'wetness' to make sure its all covered. A drip or two comes out, hence doing it over a bin.where

Never fancied using epoxy or PU, always think i'd end up with a mess, the glue pushing out and getting everywhere.

 

[Jonzjob]

Neil said "Also what a hassle keying the tubes every time"

All I do for thayt is to put them, 2 by 2, on the mandril and spin it up and a quick wipe with some 120 abrasive. Dead easy and very quick. I usually do a batch at a time.

I too use Z-poxy 5 min for a few and the 30 min if I' doing more than 3 or so. I roll a small piece of paper towel in the end of the tubes. Then when the tubes are in place just push the paper out with a bamboo stick while stopping the tube moving with my finger nail. No problems so far and I have made enough of them to buy my MacBook Pro :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

The only time I have had any failures has been either because I was using blanks from very soft wood or when I tried CA..

 

[Dieseldog]

Neil said "Also what a hassle keying the tubes every time"

All I do for thayt is to put them, 2 by 2, on the mandril and spin it up and a quick wipe with some 120 abrasive. Dead easy and very quick.

Think i'll have to give that a try ...thanks for the tip

 

[jumps]

I was going to start a new thread but it's so related to the glue you intend to use that I thought I would post here.

Prompted by a couple of reviews on the Ax site to a kit I am currently playing with (I got 3) which referenced the recommended drill sizes.

In this case the recommended drills were 0.5mm larger in diameter than the tubes; this seems to provide a little more clearance than I would expect. It certainly rules out CA glue!

What do others think?

 

[nev]

the PU stuff should fill half a mil but the tube will probably move during the setting so you need to take precautions.
Also I think that the majority of pen kits are made for the Mericans and therefore imperial, and as i found out a while ago there aint necessarily a metric equivalent in all the drill sizes, only fractionally (or metrically?) out but enough to make it too tight or too loose a fit.
(and of course the imperial drill bits cost more on this side of the pond!)

 

[CHJ]

.....In this case the recommended drills were 0.5mm larger in diameter than the tubes; this seems to provide a little more clearance than I would expect. .......What do others think?

Depends a lot on the kit profile and how thick the 'blank' walls are on the finished item I guess. A clearance of .5mm could leave some very thin material walls on the kits I've used if the tube was not centralized, I've even selected drills to within .1 or.2 mm at times..

Would certainly want to make sure that the drill was cutting true to size with that amount of slack.

 

[jumps]

.....In this case the recommended drills were 0.5mm larger in diameter than the tubes; this seems to provide a little more clearance than I would expect. .......What do others think?

Depends a lot on the kit profile and how thick the 'blank' walls are on the finished item I guess. A clearance of .5mm could leave some very thin material walls on the kits I've used if the tube was not centralized, I've even selected drills to within .1 or.2 mm at times..

Would certainly want to make sure that the drill was cutting true to size with that amount of slack.

good points Chas

leaving aside the accuracy of the set up (not because it's not relevant!) or indeed the material being drilled, your numbers woud seem to support a clearance of around 1.5mm ie the use of a 3mm oversize drill bit?

I realise that, in this case, the 5mm ovesize doesn't seem to be that much more but, in practice, there seems to be a large gap rather than 'snug clearance' - if that's not an oximoron!

 

[CHJ]

When I said 0.1 - 0.2mm selection that has been smaller than the notional tube diameter not bigger.
A lot of the so called 7mm kits have very thin walled tubes and a 6.8mm drill gives adequate clearance. I have never had a tube that needed any extra clearance.
Usual problem is getting a drill ground perfectly concentric so that it drills on size, not oversize.

 

[Neil Farrer]

I was going to start a new thread but it's so related to the glue you intend to use that I thought I would post here.

Prompted by a couple of reviews on the Ax site to a kit I am currently playing with (I got 3) which referenced the recommended drill sizes.

In this case the recommended drills were 0.5mm larger in diameter than the tubes; this seems to provide a little more clearance than I would expect. It certainly rules out CA glue!

What do others think?

I suspect that one of the reviews that you might have read may well have been mine. I am at a loss to work out why some distributors either change the manufacturers recommendations or recommend a metric measurement so far from that needed that it will probably spell disaster for the turner. If the tube size needs a 37/64 drill bit then there's only one drill bit to use, a 37/64. One distributor selling the same kit as Ax actually recommends using a 14.5mm drill bit. Clever one that, by my calculation the tube (which actually requires a 37/64 drill bit) is larger than 14.5mm! DOH. A 15mm drill bit is too big, the overall finished dim of this pen is 16.6mm I think from memory. When put in perspective, if you use a 15mm drill, you've got two walls at 0.8mm with a glue thickness of 0.2mm twice. If thin the worse case scenario, after turning it you may have one side wall at 1mm and the other at 0.6mm. If you use the correct drill bit then you should be guaranteed that the wood is located evenly around the wood and you have a better chance of the best adhesion possible. Using the correct drill bit will leave you with two walls of 1mm thick each.

I haven't had a problem sourcing imperial drill bits for pens and at very reasonable prices. In fact I can get the imperial drill bits easier than I can metric. The engineering world still works in imperial and with the exception of the 37/64 drill bit I can get all the others from three sources within two miles of my house, nearer than B and Q Wickes, Screw fix etc etc.

The 37/64 are there to be found TR sell them as the Gentlemens drills I think. Very expensive but you can get them mail order by asking Mr Google a lot cheaper.

My opinion, for what its worth is use the correct size, always, it doesn't pay to compromise.

 

[CHJ]

.... I am at a loss to work out why some distributors either change the manufacturers recommendations or recommend a metric measurement so far from that needed that it will probably spell disaster for the turner. ......My opinion, for what its worth is use the correct size, always, it doesn't pay to compromise.

Could not agree more on both counts, the metric/imperial equivalent quotes applied by a lot of the 'wood turning' distributors causes a lot of aggro. The number of times 6mm appears quoted as equivalent to 1/4" and 16mm as 5/8" is annoying to say the least.

On the 'Tube size' I always check new purchases, often the actual outer dimension changes with different batches and certainly between kits using the same nominal tube size.

 

[jumps]

I was going to start a new thread but it's so related to the glue you intend to use that I thought I would post here.

Prompted by a couple of reviews on the Ax site to a kit I am currently playing with (I got 3) which referenced the recommended drill sizes.

In this case the recommended drills were 0.5mm larger in diameter than the tubes; this seems to provide a little more clearance than I would expect. It certainly rules out CA glue!

What do others think?

I suspect that one of the reviews that you might have read may well have been mine. I am at a loss to work out why some distributors either change the manufacturers recommendations or recommend a metric measurement so far from that needed that it will probably spell disaster for the turner. If the tube size needs a 37/64 drill bit then there's only one drill bit to use, a 37/64. One distributor selling the same kit as Ax actually recommends using a 14.5mm drill bit. Clever one that, by my calculation the tube (which actually requires a 37/64 drill bit) is larger than 14.5mm! DOH. A 15mm drill bit is too big, the overall finished dim of this pen is 16.6mm I think from memory. When put in perspective, if you use a 15mm drill, you've got two walls at 0.8mm with a glue thickness of 0.2mm twice. If thin the worse case scenario, after turning it you may have one side wall at 1mm and the other at 0.6mm. If you use the correct drill bit then you should be guaranteed that the wood is located evenly around the wood and you have a better chance of the best adhesion possible. Using the correct drill bit will leave you with two walls of 1mm thick each.

I haven't had a problem sourcing imperial drill bits for pens and at very reasonable prices. In fact I can get the imperial drill bits easier than I can metric. The engineering world still works in imperial and with the exception of the 37/64 drill bit I can get all the others from three sources within two miles of my house, nearer than B and Q Wickes, Screw fix etc etc.

The 37/64 are there to be found TR sell them as the Gentlemens drills I think. Very expensive but you can get them mail order by asking Mr Google a lot cheaper.

My opinion, for what its worth is use the correct size, always, it doesn't pay to compromise.

indeed it was Neil, and thank you for raising the issue by posting the review.

measured up the tubes seem close to 14.55mm so, to me, it makes more sense to use a drill at 14.7 than 14.85 - as you suggest.