"Gardening" advice please

[AES]

I know there are several keen and knowledgable gardeners here. I am neither of those 2 things!

The pic below shows the side of our house, at its highest level (the house is built on a slope)

About 5 years ago, when the concrete path was laid to run down to the lower levels (top of it is centre in pic) I roughly levelled the remaining area off, and after copious applications of Roundup, spread the gravel that you can see in the pic. The gravel is mainly granite chippings, and according to the bags it came in, the nominal sizes of the chips is 10 to 12 mm. The depth of the gravel laid is roughly 50 - 60 mm.

Despite the Roundup, every year since then we get quick a crop of weeds coming up through the gravel, and it's back-killing work pulling them up, AND they constantly re-appear, even if managing to get the root. "Enough is enough"!

So I was thinking of raking off the gravel back to bare earth, then using a sheet of that black plastic stuff, laying it like a fitted carpet - "Anti-weed barrier" or something it's called in out local DIY Emporium. Or even that black plastic stuff used for garden pond underlay bases? Whatever?

And then rake all the gravel back over the plastic again.

My question is this - although the gravel chips are reasonably smooth, there are of course some sharp-ish corners, and especially when moving the garden waste green bins (LH in pic - those tyres are fairly narrow, and the bins can be quite heavy) I'm wondering if over time, the weight of movements over the gravel would puncture the plastic "underlay"?

If so, should I first put a thin (10 mm?) layer of sand over the plastic, to act as a "cushion" between the gravel chips and the plastic? If not sand, what else? Or just nothing "don't bother, no problem"?

Please note that with my back problems I do NOT contemplate excavating the existing earth base below its present level/s, hence the talk of "only" 10 mm of sand/whatever.

Any advice or comment gratefully received - this is definitely NOT an area of expertise (or much interest) for me!

TIA

AES

 

[bugbear]

Roundup is only a one-off weedkiller. It pretty much only kills the weeds that are there when you apply it.

Your new weeds are most likely growing IN the gravel itself. They won't like it,
but they'll give it a try. Over time, organic matter (moss, leaves, dead weeds) will fall
and rot in the gravel making it incrementally more soil like.

What you're looking at is "colonisation" and "succession".

On the bright side, it should be easy to weed
the gravel, either by raking or hoeing.

BugBear

 

[lurker]

BB is correct.
Also those weed barriers will not work, trust me
What you need is a different type of weed killer
I use some stuff called path clear on my paths.

Edit: if you have algae and or moss then get the cheapest bleach you can buy and dilute 25% and water on with a can.
It may stink for a few hours but will soon go away.

 

[stuartpaul]

The weed suppression fabric is good when new. In my experience after a couple of years the general detritus of life builds up and forms a wonderful growth medium for weeds etc. so it's back to spraying! And of course 'modern' weedkillers are no where near as good as the 'old fashioned' ones so you have to spray more often.

If you've got a back problem that's a lot of gravel to shift before putting the fabric down. We used he heavy duty driveway stuff and it worked well for a couple of years without punctures etc.

If you are even remotely considering the pond liner be very, very wary of drainage. It's amazing how much runoff even a small area produces and it has to go somewhere!

We have a large area of gravel and I've resigned myself to spraying but seriously considering grass. It's actually less hassle with a weekly mow as opposed to the use of chemicals which I don't really like.

Hope this helps.

 

[AJB Temple]

We have been using the underlay fabrics for about 10 years. Different grades according to what we are trying to achieve. In our case we have round about 300 metres of paths which are either covered in gravel over the barrier, or bark chippings (which we have a plentiful supply of). We have also done about 200 metres in any area we are prepping for planting a bare root hedge in the winter. I also spray with glysophate (which I buy in 5 litre bottles for commercial use) and use a commercial sprayer. Generally I only have to spray once a year.

Our experience is that the membranes work very well, but some self seeding is inevitable. For example In February I laid about 100 square metres of 12cm block paving, over type 1, a membrane and sand. Stuff still manages to seed between the blocks! In any battle with nature, eventually nature wins.

 

[bugbear]

In any battle with nature, eventually nature wins.

Testify, brother!

BugBear

 

[n0legs]

Check out Terram 1000. Not cheap but very very effective.
Weeds wouldn't even dare trying to break through it

 

[marcros]

Check out Terram 1000. Not cheap but very very effective.
Weeds wouldn't even dare trying to break through it

but the problem still remains if they self seed on top of it

 

[n0legs]

Check out Terram 1000. Not cheap but very very effective.
Weeds wouldn't even dare trying to break through it

but the problem still remains if they self seed on top of it

Absolutely.
Salt and bleach mixed together I was told by a member here. Best weedkiller I've used.

 

[Racers]

I remember one gardening expert saying the thickness or gravel/stones makes a difference, thinner the better.

Pete

 

[DoctorWibble]

Oddly I was on the verge of popping out to weed mine. Weeds grow in the gravel and in the "new" soil that steadily builds up in the gravel. Others puncture the base, or even creep round the two feet overlaps. I've long since given up on spraying. Waste of money. The weeds win in the end. At best all you achieve is selecting for weeds that don't mind weed killer.

Judging by the neighbours a hard core base helps, as does limiting overhanging trees leaf fall etc but fabrics are a short term solution regardless of type or the way they're laid.

Grass is a lot easier. At least then you can mow the weeds.

 

[sunnybob]

I cant believe this.
I clicked on a GARDENING thread.

Oh dear, I am in deep deep trouble. My missus has only been gone since I dropped her at the airport this morning and already I'm in the depths of depravity.

More wine. Pretty please?

 

[stuartpaul]

Check out Terram 1000. Not cheap but very very effective.
Weeds wouldn't even dare trying to break through it

but the problem still remains if they self seed on top of it

Absolutely.
Salt and bleach mixed together I was told by a member here. Best weedkiller I've used.

Really? Any particular ratios/dilution? More than happy to give it a go, - bound to be far cheaper than any of the commercial brands!

Does it have a lasting effect?

 

[Alexam]

I cant believe this.
I clicked on a GARDENING thread.

Oh dear, I am in deep deep trouble. My missus has only been gone since I dropped her at the airport this morning and already I'm in the depths of depravity.

More wine. Pretty please?

You really are an old wineo Bob! [-X [-X [-X [-X
Malcolm

 

[AES]

First off, thanks to you all for some very interesting info and comments. They're all pretty "obvious", but it took you gents to point them out - so again, thanks, this Forum really is a great source for info on just about anything.

My wife saw my OP and has seen all your replies and is also pretty impressed with you lot (thinks - "Does this mean she's going to take more interest in my activities on UKW in future? If so I'd better be prepared to rein in some of my SWMBO comments in future!").

For sunnybob: Sorry about all this mate, not my favourite subject either, but sometimes ........... Well, you know what I mean!

EDIT: Yup Alexam, ain't 'e just!

For the rest of you, what you don't see in the picture is the fall behind the bushes at the back of the pic. It's about 3 to 4 M over about a 5 M length, and it's the first of 2 more falls, so the idea of using pond liner is definitely OUT (already had a big problem with run off carrying away a LOT of soil during a very heavy rain storm a couple of years ago).

That Terram 1000 sounds interesting, but according to their website, it costs 240 quid for a 100 M x 4.5 M roll! And that's in UK, so bearing in mind our prices here (NOTHING is really cheap!) I haven't even looked for a Swiss supplier. Also the area I need to cover is only roughly 8.5 M x 3 M, so Terram is also out.

A number of you make a very good point about light, wind-blown dust/soil, dead leaves, bird activity, moss, etc building up a "semi-soil area" suitable for weeds above any plastic underlay. As above, that's obvious when it's pointed out (but it never occurred to either of us before)!

So as salt for snow & ice clearing is easily available here, as is bleach, that seems to be the best answer for us - we're neither of us "old crocks", but neither is there any fitness profit to be had in bending over pulling all the bloody things out every week - especially as I DO have a pretty serious long-standing back problem.

So bleach and salt mix, sprayed from a watering can seems to be the answer - cheap, and easy, thanks a lot fellas.

I've got the bit about 25% bleach in the water, but how much salt would you suggest please? And is it necessary to make a proper saline solution (e.g. heat up the water, stir the salt in, and leave to cool)? or is it just a case of "bung a handful into a bucket of cold water and bleach and off you go"?

And a final question please - although the bushes you can see at the back of the pic are (now!!) pretty well protected from run-off by the line of cemented-in "curb stones" (especially if we're only talking about a watering can "spay") is there any danger at all that the bushes at the "back" (in the photo) will be adversely affected by the run off? If so SWMBO will definitely NOT be pleased!

Again, thanks all, stars the lot of you.

AES (& Sylvia)

 

[DoctorWibble]

a final question please - although the bushes you can see at the back of the pic are (now!!) pretty well protected from run-off by the line of cemented-in "curb stones" (especially if we're only talking about a watering can "spay") is there any danger at all that the bushes at the "back" (in the photo) will be adversely affected by the run off? If so SWMBO will definitely NOT be pleased!

If the bushes and all the downhill parts of your garden survive unscathed then so will your weeds...

 

[sunnybob]

AES....
seeing as I'm here, my advice to all gardeners is very simple.

Stamped concrete in green colour.

After over 40 years of me telling my missus that, guess what? now she's old and got a bad back (through gardening) she's just had 80% of her flower beds concreted over. She now has far more time to fly back to england without me, and I have no "watering" to do while she's away (other than the dark bottles containing fruit drinks).
Thats a win win situation, isnt it?

 

[AES]

sunnybob, you're SO right! We've been in this house since Feb. '93, and one of the 1st things I said when we moved in was "green concrete" - honestly I did. SWMBO and the next door neighbour who overheard looked at me more than a little askance, so being a chicken (or wise, you judge) I half-heatedly said I was only joking.

The result? We BOTH have bad backs (though I must be fair and confess that mine is primarily due to an accident I had in the '60's).

Send me a PM with your E-mail address and I'll send you a wonderfully sarcastic piece on the "joys" of gardening (a .pdf, and too long to post here) - unless you've already seen it - it's a "conversation" between "He Who Should Be Obeyed" and Saint Francis.



(drink up Sir)

AES

 

[finneyb]

Burn with a propane torch - no run-off to damage the bushes.
From what I've read just pass the torch over the weed to rupture the cells rather than burn it fully.

Brian

 

[bugbear]

Send me a PM with your E-mail address and I'll send you a wonderfully sarcastic piece on the "joys" of gardening (a .pdf, and too long to post here) - unless you've already seen it - it's a "conversation" between "He Who Should Be Obeyed" and Saint Francis.

Google is marvellous...

https://richsoil.com/lawn/god.jsp

BugBear