Four Flute Router Bits

[dgray]

Re photography. It is extremely difficult to show finish quality in a photo. It can only be compared really by touch. Its like photos showing the difference in sanding grades! The pics on our website show common routing results that all of us can recognise, and underline the reasons we want a better product.

JasonB
I'm pleased that you are motivated enough to cut some wood for this discussion, if only it wasn't with the sole intention of negatively discovering something!

 

[jasonB]

The pics on our website show common routing results that all of us can recognise, and underline the reasons we want a better product.

Indeed i recognised those faults as a blunt cutter and too fast a feed not the results of using a two flute cutter as the site would have people believe. I pointed out in my first reply and as my photos will confirm.

I'm not saying that your cutter won't give a good finish which I'm sure it will. I am saying that for my type of work it will need to perform substantially better to compensate for the eight fold (£6 vs £50) cost once four cutting edges are blunt.

You came hear asking for trade opinions and have also got free publicity for your product into the bargain, if my comment show your product not to be as good as the photos on your site suggest then I'm sorry but you can't have everything.

J

 

[jasonB]

As we are unlikely to get a full back to back test between brand new 4 flute, 2 flute and 2 flute replaceable tip cutters on the same piece of wood to enable members to get a comparison between finishes (as best a photo can show) between the various types I have taken these photos today. Hopefully Dodge can do something similar which will enable members to make a more informed opinion when they come to purchase a cutter.

Material : 43mm thick American white oak
Depth of cut : 2-3mm, I feel this is more representative of actual use than the 1mm shown on the 4 flute site as thats typically how far you would cut from a line before trimming.
Feed rate : Approx 4ft/min
Cutter : Wealdon 15x50 “Easi-tip” multitrim with slightly used cutters
Router : Good old Elu MOF-177E

These photos show an endgrain cut, no sign of scorching and no tear out on the lower edge, none on the top either but the offcut of MDF used as a straightedge would hide it if it were.

And a wider shot showing that it was taken in raking light from the window opposite and there are no signs of scalloping

The next show cuts with the grain, again no signs of scalloping, tearout or burning

And to illustrate my comment that scorching shown on the site is more likely to be caused by a blunt cutter than one with 2, 3 or 4 flutes here is the other end of the same worktop. I trimmed this a couple of days ago, picked up the bit which I had previously been using on MR MDF with walnut bandsawn veneers both sides and also some oak veneered MDF, as soon as I started cutting I could feel myself using more effort than I should. Changed tips and it cut like butter, the pics below show that scorching in the first couple of mm of the cut.

This end has been lightly sanded to 180g from the routed cut by hand and given 3 coats of Smith & Rogers rather nice Matt Aquacote, long grain is straight from the thicknesser

I look forward to seeing if Dodge finds a significantly better finish.

Jason

 

[dgray]

We have confidence that we have created an exceptional product in terms of Finish, Longevity, convenience for template work and affordability. These discussions have highlighted that our initial marketing on the website are focussed too much on finish and to some extent are excluding the other 3 important points.

Also perhaps our burning and rippling photos / descriptions need some revision as they were only meant as illustrations of the potential issues.

I would like to thank everyone for their comments as they will all help us improve our products and marketing.

Looking forward to Rogers test results!

 

[Dodge]

Ok, having had some time today I have put the four flute cutter through its paces - Can I firstly say before going further that prior to this thread starting on the forum I have had NO involvement whatsoever with David or Radian Cutters and I will stand by my findings 100%

My verdict - Plain and simple - THE CUTTER IS SUPERB!

I undertook several cuts with the cutter running at 20,000rpm in an old 1/2" Makita 3612 - quite seriously I cannot find fault with it - the trial cuts I undertook were all using the upper bearing but the router cutter benefits from both upper and lower bearings for convenience.

I made a template out of a piece of pine which I simply screwed to a piece of very hard English oak which was just under two inches thick and then rough cut to approximately 3 or 4mm from the template on the bandsaw. The router cutter was then used to trim back to the template - one cut was made with the router running with the grain round the curve whereas the other cut was made against the grain round the curve where tear-out would undoubtedly occur.

This is the cut made with the grain - please not the quality of the shavings which were produced during this cut - the arrow show the direction of cut. The finish on this cut could have been polished straight from the cutter with no further attention required.

The picture above shows the cut against the grain - again the finish was exceptional and very smooth, very minor ripple marks are evident which I have done my best to show on the photos and the cut was again in the direction of the arrow - it must be remembered that the piece of oak used was exceptionally hard - There was no burning whatsoever and what surprised me most was that the shavings produced on this cut were also identical to those produced when effectively cutting with the grain - these can be seen in the photo.

I then proceeded to do the same on a a piece of 2" thick English Yew, again with a very twisted grain and the cut was against the grain - I think the photo below along with the shavings speak for themselves. The yew was ready to be polished straight from the cutter.

Personally I have been buying both top and bottom bearing guided cutters from Axminster and CMT in the past - none have provided the quality of finish I experienced with the Radian Cutter, and if you consider the cost of a pair of the CMTs then the Radian cutter represents excellent value for money.

Will I buy them? - Yes without doubt I am very impressed!

Rog

 

[mtr1]

Looks like a nice finish on both set of photographs, but I agree with Jason in that the cost/durability makes the four flute cutter expensive. I use both types of cutters, replaceable and fixed. But can't see the advantage of a four flute cutter, for such a small amount of finish quality. It would soon suffer from finish quality anyway, why not make a four flute replaceable tip cutter.....best of both worlds.

 

[jasonB]

Thanks Roger, certainly looks to give a good finish. For what I do if I were to buy one it would work out more economic to keep it just for natural timber and use my replaceable one on manmade stuff as it knocks the edges off too quickly. Though the lack of further work to get the edge ready for finishing would offset some of the cost over a period.

Hope you are going to get a good discount :wink:

J

 

[Allylearm]

I was offered in the trade diamond cutters from Poland at less than £40 a pop for two winged for my CNC work they do not resharpen but fling away when blunt, a few of the CNC operators in Scotland are going this route through selling by Deral. I myself for CNC moulding ( Weinig Powermat) and Routering (Comaq/CMC Giotto) go with replacement tip due to time/cost/finish. I do have engravers and smaller cutters in twin/single flute but I try when possible to purchase largest shank I can with tips due to distribution of heat and deflection. I also use a lot of dehoggers with up and down cut spirals in my lines as well and I have no diamond cutters at all.

In the trade. In practice when you send a tool away to be sharpened (singled/twin) you need to purchase another for to carryon working, in practice you end up with usually three, one on the machine/one that can be away and one spare if it breaks, etc.

I could see the point of this cutter for the DIY or hobbyist as one good cutter may be all what you would need. So for VFM it would make sense, every tool has its market and the cost quoted is not unreasonable.

For trade I would always err on cost in ownership, finish & practicality within a production environment due to longevity of use and maintaining profile clarity. Different horse for different course.

Allylearm

 

[dgray]

I've left this thread for a while to let it take its own direction. Thanks very much to Roger for conducting the impartial test and to everyone that has read/contributed.

I think we have impressed all of the people that have bought one so far, which has been great. Most people that have bought one have immediately asked us about the subsequent products! While there will be other products in time, we are sure that this cutter will find a home in many workshops.

David
Radiantools