Fitting skirtings

[Fat ferret]

Ah the penny drops. Never thought of doing it like that or seen anyone do it like that but actually looks easier than mitreing. Will give this a go. Thanks.

 

[mailee]

There is no wonder the basic hand skills are being lost is it! :shock: I love using power tools and will use them on most things for the speed of work but never on internal corners, scribe is the only way and it's not that difficult or slow once you get the hang of it. Bl**dy amateurs :roll:

 

[Zeddedhed]

Thanks for all the comments guys - it's re-assuring to know that I'm not just some luddite who thinks a coping saw should be in very chippies toolbox. (Now you'll all tell me you use a jigsaw!)
I agree with Mailee and the rest of you - carpentry/joinery skills are being lost (quite rapidly)
Up until two years ago I ran a construction company employing over 100 guys at times and the trouble we had finding good, old school tradesmen was immense.
It seems to me that a lot of the college leavers would go out and buy a Cordless set, a Mitre saw and a Paslode gun, with the nod to hand tools being a flashy anti-vibe hammer with nail magnets(!!) and a stanley knife, and call themselves carpenters.
It seems to be the same in other trades too - finding a plasterer who skims all the way to the floor, references from door linings (not skimming over them) and cuts out electrical boxes and cleans up after himself is a tough call indeed.

 

[Alex_E]

I'm 23 and run my own company doing plastering and plumbing along with kitchens bathrooms etc. I have two lads working for me who are similar age and we always scribe internal joints. Admittedly with power tools as in cut a 45 with the mitre saw then cut the shape of the scribe with a jigsaw with a very fine blade in it. Then as long as we can get a decent fixing we tend to grip fil and nail gun them to the wall. But if the nail gun won't hold it then it's drilled and plugged etc.

So it's not all youngsters but maybe that's why we are stacked out till next year while others are struggling?

 

[Zeddedhed]

I'm 23 and run my own company doing plastering and plumbing along with kitchens bathrooms etc. I have two lads working for me who are similar age and we always scribe internal joints. Admittedly with power tools as in cut a 45 with the mitre saw then cut the shape of the scribe with a jigsaw with a very fine blade in it. Then as long as we can get a decent fixing we tend to grip fil and nail gun them to the wall. But if the nail gun won't hold it then it's drilled and plugged etc.

So it's not all youngsters but maybe that's why we are stacked out till next year while others are struggling?

That's good to hear Alex. If only you were down here in the South East I could keep you busy for ever and a day!!

 

[RossJarvis]

I did a City and Guilds five years ago. We were taught to scribe internals.

Admittedly I saw a "proper job" the lecturer did a month or so back and I was ashamed on his behalf of how he didn't do anything right :?

 

[novocaine]

It seems to be the same in other trades too - finding a plasterer who skims all the way to the floor, references from door linings (not skimming over them) and cuts out electrical boxes and cleans up after himself is a tough call indeed.

skim to the floor is the quickest way to ruin a wall, no air gap at the bottom, no where for moisture to go, bleeds out the plaster. there should be a 2" gap. (at least this is what I was always trained to do)

not cleaning up after ones self though is still a bugbear, yes it's a messy job, cover the floor and take the sheets with you, job done and clean.
last time I had a plasterer in (didn't have time to do it myself) he was spotless, will work with him again, he had a new lad with him he was training up, got a bollocking for putting his mug down on the one service not covered (windowsill).

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I thought the whole point of skirting apart from the obvious aesthetic was exactly that ie to cover the gap left between wall and floor created by the necessity to avoid plastering all the way to floor level. Originally when walls weren't damp proof, bead board cladding would have hidden the damp up to dado rail level but I've always assumed skirting got more popular when walls weren't quite so running wet and they took over from the cladding?

 

[Zeddedhed]

I can't see the need for the plaster to stop short of the floor. The 'air gap' excuse doesn't make sense. Why would a wall need an air gap? Most plasterers have told me it's so they don't pick up rubbish off the floor when skimming which would ruin the finish. This sounds feasible but is still not a good enough reason IMHO. Sweep the floor, and if you're really worried then stop 5mm short of the floor, not the usual 50 - 100mm.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

My understanding has always been that plastering was deliberately stopped shy of the floor to avoid the risk of moisture sucking (through capillary action). Since the advancing of 9" walls, dpc's etc where the risk of external wall ingress is now minimal, I've always assumed the reason is that when water spills inside a home (burst pipe, flooded washer etc), it travels across the floor, under the skirting and up the plaster.

The inch or so gap avoids this risk, surely?

 

[Zeddedhed]

Random, I guess that in a flood scenario then less water would end up sucking up the wall - probably. It cannot be a good reason not to plaster down to the floor though. If water travels under the skirting and up the blockwork or stud work it will still eventually stain or damage the plaster finish.

 

[novocaine]

thats the reason I was always given, the new house had skirting fitted by knocking in wooden spaces between bricks for screws to go in to. then a bitumen floor coating was applied. the moisture has no where to go so the wood sucked up the moisture, I am now scabbling the walls to 4' and replastering the whole lot. where plaster was sat at floor level (2 out of 4 walls) the moisture in the plaster was exceptionally high (not tested with a moisture monitor instead samples taken and tested). the kitchen that was redone (other side of the wall) and had the skirting fitted correctly and the plaster run to 2" from the floor has perfect walls without excess moisture.

brick work wont suck up water, if it did all the bridges on canals would have fallen down years ago.

Edited to change block to brick.

 

[Zeddedhed]

Now you've introduced a whole new issue!!
The use of grounds - wooden bits between bricks.
I totally agree that if grounds are used then plastering to the floor doesn't matter (to a chippie)
However, i haven't seen them used in years.

 

[novocaine]

grounds, thats the word I was looking for.
house is 1930s, previous owners where cowboys with almost every bit of work they did, including electrics being 1 step away from dangerous. all hidden too so not found till we had moved in.

 

[Graham Orm]

brick work wont suck up water, if it did all the bridges on canals would have fallen down years ago.

Edited to change block to brick.

Rubbish. Why do bricks burst below a damp proof line when frozen? Because the ones below the damp are sodden.

 

[novocaine]

brick work wont suck up water, if it did all the bridges on canals would have fallen down years ago.

Edited to change block to brick.

Rubbish. Why do bricks burst below a damp proof line when frozen? Because the ones below the damp are sodden.

normally because water has ingressed though cracks or pores in the face of the brick and expanded. I said it wont suck up water, as in the water will not rise in the brick work, it will rise in cement though.
this is why we use an engineered brick below the line not a common.

 

[Zeddedhed]

I don't want to start a row here but.....

Bricks DO suck up water. Stack three or four bricks (no mortar) in a washing up bowl and pour in two inches of water. Wait half a day or so and then take a look at the 'tide mark' on the bricks.
Unless as novo says they are engineering bricks.

Or, everything I thought I knew about DPC's and brickwork is wrong (possible) and I'm a goon (true says SWIMBO)

 

[novocaine]

to be honest I'm not going to argue it, I haven't got the energy.
have a search for a book by Jeff Howell called "The rising damp myth"

 

[jonbee56]

I'm 23 and run my own company doing plastering and plumbing along with kitchens bathrooms etc. I have two lads working for me who are similar age and we always scribe internal joints. Admittedly with power tools as in cut a 45 with the mitre saw then cut the shape of the scribe with a jigsaw with a very fine blade in it. Then as long as we can get a decent fixing we tend to grip fil and nail gun them to the wall. But if the nail gun won't hold it then it's drilled and plugged etc.

So it's not all youngsters but maybe that's why we are stacked out till next year while others are struggling?

As someone who served their time as an indentured carpenter, that is the right way to do it (except for using a coping saw instead of a fine down cutting jigsaw blade). Cut out the join between the mitre cut and the face of the timber.

Always start the room by fitting a full length on the wall facing the main door, then the scribed cuts butt up against the flat section and the joints are less apparent, especially when they shrink. Officially its two 3" fixings, 1" from top & bottom, then every 18" and two also 2" from the end, but I cant remember the last time I saw all that done.

 

[jonbee56]

I don't want to start a row here but.....

Bricks DO suck up water. Stack three or four bricks (no mortar) in a washing up bowl and pour in two inches of water. Wait half a day or so and then take a look at the 'tide mark' on the bricks.
Unless as novo says they are engineering bricks.

Or, everything I thought I knew about DPC's and brickwork is wrong (possible) and I'm a goon (true says SWIMBO)

Keep your hair on.

It depends upon how porous the bricks are, yellow London stocks are very porous, but at the other end of the scale you do have
Class B (Semi & full engineering) and paviours, somewhere in the middle you have flettons & farsends (1000's) of other types