First post first box help needed

[My63]

Hello everyone
i am a new member although I have been reading as a guest for some time now.
My name is Michael I live in the North East of England, I was forced to retire from work early after an accident.
I became interested in boxes to store my collection of fountain pens mainly writing slopes and cutlery boxes which I sometimes restore for fellow collectors.
I have made some small boxes but recently I was asked to make a larger box being that oak is my wood of choice I used 25 mm mitred the corners all went well until I came to cut the lid from the base.
As the box has a 6mm band of walnut around the top I decided to mirror the same size in the oak.
You may already be able to see my problem I am left with 12 mm thickness in the lid to fit hinges I had planned on using neat hinges from Ian Hawthorne obviously there is very little room for the screws.
I am sorry to ask for help in my first post I dont believe in posting unless I have something to add to the community I will add pictures as soon as I have maade the required number of posts.
I also have some barrel hinges that require an 8mm hole but I am unsure if they can support the weight of the lid 15inches x 10 inches.
If anyone has any experience of neat hinges and offer any advice I would be most greatful.
Regards
Michael

 

[carlb40]

Hi Michael welcome
You can post pictures now, what you can't do is link to pics via flickr/ photobucket etc yet

picture-posting-guide-t63716.html

 

[marcros]

give Ian Hawthorne a shout, he is very helpful.

IIRC, the neat hinges only need 9mm, so although you need to be accurate with cutting, it is feasible. All hinges need to be cut accurately, particularly on small projects or they spoil the box. Another alternative is some high quality solid brass butt hinges- you will have to search around, but you can find some that are narrow on the leaves- I got some from Isaac Lord.

 

[carlb40]

give Ian Hawthorne a shout, he is very helpful.

IIRC, the neat hinges only need 9mm, so although you need to be accurate with cutting, it is feasible. All hinges need to be cut accurately, particularly on small projects or they spoil the box. Another alternative is some high quality solid brass butt hinges- you will have to search around, but you can find some that are narrow on the leaves- I got some from Isaac Lord.

Here you go,
http://hawthornecrafts.com/box-hardware/

Seems like the neat hinges are 8mm, sooo plenty of room to spare :mrgreen:

 

[My63]

give Ian Hawthorne a shout, he is very helpful.

IIRC, the neat hinges only need 9mm, so although you need to be accurate with cutting, it is feasible. All hinges need to be cut accurately, particularly on small projects or they spoil the box. Another alternative is some high quality solid brass butt hinges- you will have to search around, but you can find some that are narrow on the leaves- I got some from Isaac Lord.

Thanks Marcos I will use the contact section of his website
Michael

 

[marcros]

I would be interested to see some pics when you upload them.

 

[My63]

I would be interested to see some pics when you upload them.

I use flicker to store my pictures so as this is my third post I will upload some it is nothing special but I hope that i will improve with practice.
Thanks again
Michael

 

[My63]

This is the side of the box showing the lid and base.


IMG_0031 by my0771, on Flickr

This is the inside of the box with its internal trays the inside of the box will be lined with cobalt blue suede.

IMG_0030 by my0771, on Flickr

I have lots of pictures thanks
Michael

 

[andersonec]

Michael,
Just a couple of things if I may, Firstly, with mitred corners you are going to need to strengthen them somehow, end grain glued to end grain without any reinforcement is destined to fail. The usual method is splines or keys, it is not easy to get them to fit perfectly but I have seen it done with a very thin saw and just veneer slotted in, if you google jewellery box (images) or box splines on youtube, you will see what I mean.
Your barrel (soss) hinges will do the job and will hold your lid very firmly.
Ian Hawthorne used to use machine screws on his hinges but with my last order he sent stainless slotted wood screws, these are slightly longer but still fit the hinges perfectly, you have plenty of space for these.

Andy

 

[My63]

Michael,
Just a couple of things if I may, Firstly, with mitred corners you are going to need to strengthen them somehow, end grain glued to end grain without any reinforcement is destined to fail. The usual method is splines or keys, it is not easy to get them to fit perfectly but I have seen it done with a very thin saw and just veneer slotted in, if you google jewellery box (images) or box splines on youtube, you will see what I mean.
Your barrel (soss) hinges will do the job and will hold your lid very firmly.
Ian Hawthorne used to use machine screws on his hinges but with my last order he sent stainless slotted wood screws, these are slightly longer but still fit the hinges perfectly, you have plenty of space for these.

Andy

Thanks Andy
I am worried about the mitre joints now I dont want the joints to fail.
I sent Ian an emailthis morning and he has replied the depth of the lid is my main concern I only have 12mm the hinge is 3mm deep so I would only have 9mm before the screw was out of the top of my lid and unfortunatley it will be another month before Ian has stock.
I may have to use the barrel hinges for this project and use the neat hinge for a later project do you think two barrel hinges will be enough.
Thanks
michael

 

[andersonec]

I would have every confidence in your barrel hinges as long as they are a snug fit. Ian Hawthorne has some other nickel plated hinges if you are in a hurry, the one difference is you will need to chop a mortise for the stop.

Andy

 

[My63]

Hi Andy
Rather than putting splines on the front could I put them in the top as the bottom is secured to the base would that need them.
Thanks again for the help.
Michael

 

[andersonec]

Michael, if the base is glued in then that would be good reinforcement for the bottom half of the box so really all that is needed would be some strengthening at the top, the only reason I would then put one at the bottom would be for aesthetics, just to balance the look.

Andy

 

[My63]

Sorry Andy i meant on the inside edge where the lid sits I was thinking of cutting slots accross the joint it would then be covered by the veneer when I have fitted the magnets.
I hope I am explaining it clearly I do appreciate the time you are taking to reply.
Thanks
Michael

 

[carlb40]

Sorry Andy i meant on the inside edge where the lid sits I was thinking of cutting slots accross the joint it would then be covered by the veneer when I have fitted the magnets.
I hope I am explaining it clearly I do appreciate the time you are taking to reply.
Thanks
Michael

I know what you mean, however it might be difficult to cut a spline that way and keep everything a uniform size? A full or near full length spline like you mention could be an option on future boxes? A full length one could easily be covered by a thin veneer on the top edge

 

[carlb40]

On another note, just had a quick look at your flickr. You have some nice work there
One thing i would do though, on the latest uploads i notice you have used a pine? for the dividers. The ends could do with a wee sanding before being finished. You can see the whispy bits after they were cut to length

 

[andersonec]

Sorry Andy i meant on the inside edge where the lid sits I was thinking of cutting slots accross the joint it would then be covered by the veneer when I have fitted the magnets.
I hope I am explaining it clearly I do appreciate the time you are taking to reply.
Thanks
Michael

No problem, you could sink in some sort of link to hold the corners together, I suppose it depends how much time you want to spend on it. With a little sharp chisel you could let in (3mm or so deep ) a little butterfly (see picture) glue it in then trim it off when dry and if you are going to veneer the edge then it wouldn't have to be perfect.

Andy

 

[My63]

Thanks Andy that is exactly what I had in mind.
I have a router attachment for my proxxon I might use that or a chisel as you suggested.
Yes I will be veneering that edge I am planning on fitting a couple of magnets to keep the lid closed.
Thanks
Michael

 

[My63]

I took Andys advice and fitted some splines as the base was secured I fitted them from the top I plan to fit rare earth magnets instead of a catch I will then apply some oak veneer over the top.
I read on another thread about niche locks having looked at there site i ordered a pair they are small and the screws will fit my lid without any depth issues so i am really happy.


IMG_0174_1 by my0771, on Flickr

 

[My63]

I thought you might like to see the veneer over the top of the splines looks ok I think


IMG_0254 by my0771, on Flickr