first post and looking for some advice

[Petey83]

Hi all. First pist after spending some time learning from the site.

I am a novice and have just booked myself some introduction to furniture making evening classes in order to up my skills from boxing in pipes and fitting shelves in DIY land.

I am looking for some advice on hand tools (hand held power tools are currently well catered for). I am in no massive rush to go out and buy but am looking tobgeyban idea of how much I need to put in the piggy bank and what order I should be looking to buy specific tools. In terms of budget I don't mind paying for quality but buying all Lie Nielson would mean buying one tool every couple of months so would rather spend the money where most important and save on other tools with out to much compromise on quality.

So far all I have are some marpls blue chip chisels and a carpenters mallet. I have sharpening stones as use water stones on my Japanese kitchen knives forks

Any help or advice would be greatly welcomed.

 

[Mr T]

In terms of edge tools you don't need to spend a fortune to get good tools. It depends to some degree on whethr you are time or money rich. For instance with planes, if you are money rich consider Quang Sheng tools from Workshop Heaven, if you are time rich then you can get good Record or Stanley planes from ebay (especially if you look for the older models) and work on them so they perform as well as the up market tools.

Chris

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

In terms of sequence, you have chisels and sharpening kit already so you'll want a block plane for end grain and knocking edges off/tidying up etc. A 41/2 or similar smoothing plane and perhaps a larger jointer plane if you plan to do wider glue-ups which is pretty likely. A decent marking gauge and square are a must. I quite like the veritas wheel gauges as I find them easier to keep true in long grain than the old marples style pin gauges but its a personal choice. Then saws. That depends on what you plan to make as to how much specialism you buy into (dovetail saw etc). But again as a generic you'll probably want a universal saw, tenon, coping and a gents saw for finer work.

To be honest, the fact you've booked into classes, I'm sure within 2 sessions you'll have a pretty good idea of what you'll want through practical application. I would be very wary of buying a great big list of things before you settle into it. Tool purchase really is an ongoing process that is informed by what you're making. The correct first step was booking classes, I have little doubt the choices for first hand tool purchases will flow thick and fast from those learning events

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Watch the car boots. I picked up a Marples mortice gauge (unused) for £2, a Stanley no.8 with a laminated iron for £30, planes no.4s 4 1/2s and no.5s never more than £6 - £7, endless chisels and gouges for £1- £2, and so on.

 

[Petey83]

Thanks for the replies gents.

In the battle of time vs cash rich I would say cash wins as I only have limited time at weekends due to work and have to work outside due to space constraints so may be easier to spend the extra money on a quality out the box item.

In terms of saws should I be looking at a heavy tenon or light tenon? In the power tool collection i have a makita circ saw and a metabo jig saw.

Thanks
Pete

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

If you have money but little space or time, though it pains me to say because I object to Festool prices, it makes sense to review their modular systems for power tools. They are pre-eminent in supplying "families" of tools which integrate well with each other. For example their cms table systems will accommodate both routers and saws. They have a mobile workbench concept called the multi function table (mft3) which also accommodates a plunge saw with associated rails and clamps so its essentially like a table saw but breaks down for portability. They have cases called systainers which hold all the bits and which stack nice and neatly. Those dam germans have kind of thought it all through and do have a very modular and well engineered set of tools that build into a veritable arsenal of capability. But they cost a heck of a lot more than everyone elses! Well, someone's got to fund the German middle classes haven't they?

If you youtube a chap called peter parfitt, he regularly reviews their kit...possibly sleeps with it I suspect. Festool seems to get people like that, bit like religious fanaticism.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Hi Petey, and welcome to the forum!

Everybody has different ideas about which tools and where to buy them. Some swear by vintage tools, and scour the car boot sales (very cheap, but a lottery as to what you might find) or Ebay (still cheap, and you can select a bit, but still a lottery on condition at times), or go to established secondhand dealers (there's a fairly comprehensive list of them on Alf's website, 'The Cornish Workshop'). Other people prefer new, and price is often a guide to quality. You can get cheap good tools, but it's often more by luck than judgement - you can get cheap rubbish too!

As to which tools, perhaps the best bet is to hold off until you've been on the course (an excellent idea, by the way). Another help would be to invest in a couple of books, and I'd recommend 'The Essential Woodworker' by Robert Wearing as one of the best beginners books around. Another is 'The Anarchist's Tool Chest' by Christopher Schwarz, which describes in some details the tools you REALLY need to make decent solid-wood furniture, and a traditional chest to keep them in. Classic Hand Tools or Axminster Power Tool Centre can supply - Amazon won't, since the publishers (Lost Art Press) prefer not to deal with them. They aren't cheap books, but they're beautifully produced and the information in them is pure gold.

By the way, don't be afraid to make the odd tool-buying mistake. We've all got a few of those hidden away...

 

[morfa]

Second hand tools are the way to go. For hand tools, they're a fraction of the price and equivalent quality to the fancy stuff. You will have to learn to fettle & sharpen your hand tools anyway, so you might as well start with second hand stuff. Doesn't matter if you make mistakes.

As an example a 2nd hand Record or Stanley no4 can be had for £20 off ebay, a Quangsheng (chinese rip-off) will cost you £120 and a Lie Nielsen will cost you £270. You could get most of the planes you need for the cost of one Lie Nielsen plane. So far all the second hand planes I've bought have been working out of the box. Ditto saws. A couple of sensible ebay purchases will net you some decent saws, while new saws will cost you £100s.

Chisels are a bit more hit and miss second hand, there's a lot of heavily abused chisels out there. But modern chisels are generally ok and there's no need to spend a fortune. A decent new oilstone isn't expensive either. Second hand marking tools are all fine as well, you can buy what you need for small amounts of money compared to spending huge amounts for new stuff.

I will second the recommendations to buy:

The Essential Woodworker by Robert Wearing & The Anarchists Toolchest by Chris Schwartz - http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalo ... Press.html

I could give you a rough list, but those two books say it all and much better than I will. Buy them, you don't be disappointed.

As you don't say if you have a workbench, I'm going to assume you don't and say that it's a very important tool to have. Here are a couple of guides on building a standard 'British' workbench.

GS Haydon (of this parish) - http://gshaydon.co.uk/blog/the-workbench-build-begins - posts start there but you'll have to hunt the rest of them down...

Paul Sellers video guide - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD39949332C7FB168

and his blog posts - http://paulsellers.com/2012/06/making-your-workbench/

And this guide as well - http://picnicpark.org/keith/woodworking ... nch-ne.pdf

And this post of mine has lots of useful links in it:

post736527.html#p736527

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

And though you are time poor, there is a hidden benefit in buying a 2nd hand plane and fettling it yourself because you pour a lot of your soul into it. That sounds clichéd but its quite important. Every time you use that tool, you'll know it intimately, you'll know exactly how the adjustment controls work, what their foibles are, where the blade alignment goes a bit funny and how to avoid it. You'll know the bed is flat because you hand honed it yourself and it will really give you back over and over again what you put into it. The general bringing back to regular use of a classic bench plane like a Stanley/Bailey or Record is not to be under estimated as time very well spent. I've got 3 of my Dad's planes. I fettled them many years ago and still use them regularly today. Every now and then I dismantle them and clean bits, sharpen them, double check the beds etc. I wax them in use and keep the threads lubricated. They just sing after they've warmed up in the hand. It's one of the most pleasurable bits of wood working I ever experience is taking a gossamer shaving with a warmed up plane. Ranks right up there with the first coat of finish going on when the grain pops out and hits you (and the smell of freshly planed pine)

 

[Petey83]

I did look at Festool as the carpenter who repaired my sash windows in my old flat had one of their drill drivers and I remember thinking I looked good but the cost was beyond what I could spend considering what i needed to do renovation works on the new place we have just bought.

I got a Bosch blue RO sander, a metabo jigsaw, makita R0700 cx2 1/4 router, makita 5704 rk circ saw with 48t extra blade and a Makita combie drill driver all for a touch over what a single festool costs!

Obviously these were bought for home improvement work but they should do the job on my new adventure in furniture making until I have space for a little workshop and fixed power tools.

In terms of work bench I don't have the space for a fixed bench so i bought a keter folding work bench as my main work surface (again diy minded purchase I am hoping can fill the gap for now) and am thinking to supliment it with a couple of saw horses and a length of kitchen worktop off cut when I need the extra work space ....

In terms of books I am happy to pay the price of a good book if it helps. I have the technique of furniture making on order with wh smiths but no idea if they will be able to get it yet so thanks for the suggestions gents.

 

[mind_the_goat]

"First pist after spending some time learning from the site."

Yes, a lot of people feel like that after reading a few sharpening threads.

Sorry, couldn't help myself, welcome to the forum.

 

[SteveF]

Watch the car boots. I picked up a Marples mortice gauge (unused) for £2, a Stanley no.8 with a laminated iron for £30, planes no.4s 4 1/2s and no.5s never more than £6 - £7, endless chisels and gouges for £1- £2, and so on.

a #8 for £30...iwant to go to your boot fairs
and i would add a block plane to the list...my favorite go to when grain gets tough
probably more from my big hands and i get blisters from a #4