jobsagooden
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Festool trio?
- Thread starter jobsagooden
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Martingchapman
Established Member
They have redesigned the aluminium frame of the MFT to make it more like the frame of the CMS (into which you can fit a saw table, router table, jigsaw table and belt sander table).
The CMS rip fence, mitre fence and accessories will fit the redesigned MFT frame.
They have also changed the height of the MFT to match the height of the CMS.
The graphic suggests that there will be a way of connecting the CMS to the MFT to make an extended table (you can already connect one or more MFT's together).
Regards the CMS router table module this is an aluminium plate about 6mm thick with a couple of ribs running lengthways down the underside. I cant see any problem with routing out a hole with a ledge in an MFT to take the router table. This has been done for other makes of router table, see these search results from the Festool Owners Group (FOG) forum.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?action=search2
I have the CMS and router module so if you need any detail on them just let me know.
Martin.
The CMS rip fence, mitre fence and accessories will fit the redesigned MFT frame.
They have also changed the height of the MFT to match the height of the CMS.
The graphic suggests that there will be a way of connecting the CMS to the MFT to make an extended table (you can already connect one or more MFT's together).
Regards the CMS router table module this is an aluminium plate about 6mm thick with a couple of ribs running lengthways down the underside. I cant see any problem with routing out a hole with a ledge in an MFT to take the router table. This has been done for other makes of router table, see these search results from the Festool Owners Group (FOG) forum.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?action=search2
I have the CMS and router module so if you need any detail on them just let me know.
Martin.
Martingchapman
Established Member
The link in my previous post takes you to the FOG search page, you need to enter "Router Table" (without the quotes) as the search term.
Martin.
Martin.
I think you might find it's the new mini spindle moulder/table router TF 2200 not the MFT. Have look here :http://www.festool.de/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=6838
Looks very pretty if you ask me
Looks very pretty if you ask me
jobsagooden
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Thanks Martingchapman. I think I will wait and see what the unveiling is going to be, and then decided what to do.
Looks like it going to be an interesting month!
Looks like it going to be an interesting month!
jobsagooden
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Loz
I've just seen that on the ipt tour you can look at the new router and a wee bit on the new table. Looks like the exact thing I want, as long as I can still use my trend t11 in the table.
I am considering selling my old table (1080), (feel free to make an offer anyone) and getting the new one, with the router table attached. This will be a brilliant mobile set up. But at what cost???
jobsa
I've just seen that on the ipt tour you can look at the new router and a wee bit on the new table. Looks like the exact thing I want, as long as I can still use my trend t11 in the table.
I am considering selling my old table (1080), (feel free to make an offer anyone) and getting the new one, with the router table attached. This will be a brilliant mobile set up. But at what cost???
jobsa
Steve Maskery
Established Member
I had a little play with some nice new Green Stuff at Festool's training centre this week with a party of other journalists from all over Europe.
The new OF220 router, unveiled this week is an interesting tool. It has the base mounted at an angle to the body, so when you run along the edge of a board on hand is forward of the other, making it easier to push in whilst pushing along. It's a big boy, but not as heavy or difficult to manoeuvre as I would expect a tool of this size to be. I don't need anything this powerful, but I'm sure it will have many takers, especially in industry.
As to the new tables, yes the router table just clips to the side of the MFT and adjusts for level so you can flush it up. The aluminium plate pops in and out, and the router is clamped underneath with saddle clamps. IIRC there are different adapter rings for different routers, so that it centres automatically in the aperture of the plate.
I'd always considered the MFT to be a bit of a luxurious gimmick, but having actually used it , I can understand that it could be a very good system if you make it the heart of your workshop. Sadly I don't have the space.
Cheers
Steve
The new OF220 router, unveiled this week is an interesting tool. It has the base mounted at an angle to the body, so when you run along the edge of a board on hand is forward of the other, making it easier to push in whilst pushing along. It's a big boy, but not as heavy or difficult to manoeuvre as I would expect a tool of this size to be. I don't need anything this powerful, but I'm sure it will have many takers, especially in industry.
As to the new tables, yes the router table just clips to the side of the MFT and adjusts for level so you can flush it up. The aluminium plate pops in and out, and the router is clamped underneath with saddle clamps. IIRC there are different adapter rings for different routers, so that it centres automatically in the aperture of the plate.
I'd always considered the MFT to be a bit of a luxurious gimmick, but having actually used it , I can understand that it could be a very good system if you make it the heart of your workshop. Sadly I don't have the space.
Cheers
Steve
jobsagooden":2lipy512 said:
Don't forget, if you have the old style Basis Table system as well as the old 1080 MFT, that the new CMS tables are a different height and not compatible!
As for the price, the German site has the complete module+router+table for €1543 which is about £1220. I'm sure they will be selling the module on its own though for around £300. [EDIT: In fact it is already available; CMS-OF for about £410. :roll: ] How that will all tie together with the new bits that Steve mentioned, I don't know.
jobsagooden
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My MFT is the heart of my workshop, and on site if space permits. But I have to say I haven't used the fence at all. I think I should make an effort.
It might worth me trying to get the basic-plus system, and link this into my mft. But I understand that not all the new cms modules fit. This should save me a bit!!!! :lol:
Which one is that? Most are £365, but the ones on these websites (german and uk ipt) has handle to rise cutter height on top, not underneath like the current £365 tables.
Jobsa
I actually prefer the old Basis system, Festool used to sell separate extrusions that allowed you to link your tables and MFT's together as one huge work station. I think the footprint of the CMS is just too small. I don't think you'd have much trouble finding the Basis table and parts second hand if you didn't want to chuck your MFT.jobsagooden":wloseah3 said:
AFAIK, the only module from the old range that doesn't fit the new CMS is the Basis 1A/T trim saw module that the old ATF55 used to fit in. All of the other modules are exactly the same as the new CMS versions.
The version with the rise and fall handle on top was the one I meant, see this page for €€€ prices and versions:Festool CMS-OF module.jobsagooden":wloseah3 said:
The prices have all gone up since I last looked and the new version is, of course, more expensive!
Just getting into woodworking/DIY (laying new solid wood floor, building fitted cupboards, etc.) and realising that quality tools make a big difference.
Trying to buy tools that fit with short term projects (fitted wardrobes), current space constraints (no workshop, so tools put away in cupboard) with longer term aspirations (furniture making - maybe even a career change!).
Started out looking at table saw, compound mitre etc but don't really have space at the mo.
Found the Festool MFT/3 TS 55 and rail, spent lot time reading about them in various forums and I'm sold!
Currently looking at
TS55 + Rails, 800 and 1400
MFT/3
CT22
And poss
CMS with router module and/or table saw module
Any advise and or answers to following questions would be much appreciated
1. Would it be better to get CMS stand alone module or one that attaches to MFT?
2. How does the CMS router table compare to other tables on the market? I was looking at the Trend tables but read some negative comments regarding the flatness of the table bed
3. Will my Trend T11 fit in CMS router table module or do I need to get Festool model?
4. If I have the MFT and rail do I really need the CMS saw table or is this overkill?
5. Is the TS 55 big enough for the table or do I need the 75
6. Is the CT22 big enough or should I be looking at the 33?
7. Will the festool vac fit other tools such as Metabo sander?
I know that it is best not to have to unmount the saw and router from the table to use elsewhere but in the short term this is more economical. If the T11 fits in the table then I will consider one of the smaller Festool models for freehand/use with guide rail at some point in the future.
Sorry for so many questions but it's a lot of cash and I don't want to blow it unnecessarily!
Thanks for your help
Graham
Trying to buy tools that fit with short term projects (fitted wardrobes), current space constraints (no workshop, so tools put away in cupboard) with longer term aspirations (furniture making - maybe even a career change!).
Started out looking at table saw, compound mitre etc but don't really have space at the mo.
Found the Festool MFT/3 TS 55 and rail, spent lot time reading about them in various forums and I'm sold!
Currently looking at
TS55 + Rails, 800 and 1400
MFT/3
CT22
And poss
CMS with router module and/or table saw module
Any advise and or answers to following questions would be much appreciated
1. Would it be better to get CMS stand alone module or one that attaches to MFT?
2. How does the CMS router table compare to other tables on the market? I was looking at the Trend tables but read some negative comments regarding the flatness of the table bed
3. Will my Trend T11 fit in CMS router table module or do I need to get Festool model?
4. If I have the MFT and rail do I really need the CMS saw table or is this overkill?
5. Is the TS 55 big enough for the table or do I need the 75
6. Is the CT22 big enough or should I be looking at the 33?
7. Will the festool vac fit other tools such as Metabo sander?
I know that it is best not to have to unmount the saw and router from the table to use elsewhere but in the short term this is more economical. If the T11 fits in the table then I will consider one of the smaller Festool models for freehand/use with guide rail at some point in the future.
Sorry for so many questions but it's a lot of cash and I don't want to blow it unnecessarily!
Thanks for your help
Graham
Martingchapman
Established Member
GrahamB
I have the CMS stand alone with TS75 saw and router table but with the large Triton router.
In answer to your questions;
1. Personally, I would go for the stand alone, otherwise to use the router or table saw you are tied to the MFT. You may want to use them on opposite sides of a room/workshop or even on different sites and with the combined module this is not possible. Having said that the CMS table area is quite small. I have bought the drop down end table and extending side rail for mine.
2. The CMS is a very solid router table with a very good fence. The infeed half is micro adjustable in and out so you can use it to plane flat surfaces. There is a flip up vertical hold down and removable horizontal hold down which work well and are very effective guards.
3. My Triton fits ok, slightly off centre due to a large strengthening rib that runs along the bottom of the table adjacent to the cutter opening. The router is held in place with 4 supplied clamps which have a good range of adjustment. Supplied with the table are a couple of reducing rings which fit into the cutter opening to make it smaller for small cutters, these snap into the opening but have a raised ridge on the router side which is used to centre a Festool router. Because of the raised ridge and the fact that the Triton is offset in the table I cannot use the reducers, but I have not found this a problem when using the table. It may be the same if you use the Trend.
4. The MFT and rail are ideal for crosscutting sheet material or timber, at any angle, but not for ripping. If you need to rip timber lengthways then I think you would struggle with the MFT. The CMS is fine for ripping. If you also buy the sliding table you can use the MFT for crosscutting up to at least 600mm very accurately (without the sliding table you can only rip with the CMS saw module), and the sliding table can also be used with the router table for moulding the ends of rails etc.
5. You do loose a small amount of capacity from the saw when it is mounted in the CMS. The TS55 will work fine but I have the TS75 because I did not want to be frustrated by not being able to cut over 50mm. Also, although it is not difficult mounting and demounting the saw into and out of the table it is a bit of a fiddle (mounting the table itself is very easy so you can swap between sawing and routing very quickly). When funds allow I am going to purchase a TS55 so that I can leave the TS75 in the CMS and use the TS55 with a rail.
6. I had the same dilemma and decided to go for the CT33, again simply because I did not want to feel frustrated by the smaller capacity of the CT22. The only difference between them is capacity so its really up to you, either will do the job.
7. The Festool vac hose connecter is fairly flexible, what Metabo sander do you have?
Some other things to bear in mind;
When you mount either the TS75 or TS55 in the CMS module you change the riving knife for a larger one, onto which you fit the saw top guard. This effectively stops you from using just the top of the blade for tenon cheek cuts (ala Norm Abraham) or through housing cuts. If you want to make these cuts with an unguarded blade you need to remove the CMS riving knife and top guard, bit of a fiddle.
To get the best dust extraction from the CMS Saw and Router module you need to buy the dual extractor hose. This fits on both the saw and the router module to extract from the top and bottom.
I am very happy with my CMS set up, I have a very small workshop so it works fine for me.
Hope this helps.
Martin.
I have the CMS stand alone with TS75 saw and router table but with the large Triton router.
In answer to your questions;
1. Personally, I would go for the stand alone, otherwise to use the router or table saw you are tied to the MFT. You may want to use them on opposite sides of a room/workshop or even on different sites and with the combined module this is not possible. Having said that the CMS table area is quite small. I have bought the drop down end table and extending side rail for mine.
2. The CMS is a very solid router table with a very good fence. The infeed half is micro adjustable in and out so you can use it to plane flat surfaces. There is a flip up vertical hold down and removable horizontal hold down which work well and are very effective guards.
3. My Triton fits ok, slightly off centre due to a large strengthening rib that runs along the bottom of the table adjacent to the cutter opening. The router is held in place with 4 supplied clamps which have a good range of adjustment. Supplied with the table are a couple of reducing rings which fit into the cutter opening to make it smaller for small cutters, these snap into the opening but have a raised ridge on the router side which is used to centre a Festool router. Because of the raised ridge and the fact that the Triton is offset in the table I cannot use the reducers, but I have not found this a problem when using the table. It may be the same if you use the Trend.
4. The MFT and rail are ideal for crosscutting sheet material or timber, at any angle, but not for ripping. If you need to rip timber lengthways then I think you would struggle with the MFT. The CMS is fine for ripping. If you also buy the sliding table you can use the MFT for crosscutting up to at least 600mm very accurately (without the sliding table you can only rip with the CMS saw module), and the sliding table can also be used with the router table for moulding the ends of rails etc.
5. You do loose a small amount of capacity from the saw when it is mounted in the CMS. The TS55 will work fine but I have the TS75 because I did not want to be frustrated by not being able to cut over 50mm. Also, although it is not difficult mounting and demounting the saw into and out of the table it is a bit of a fiddle (mounting the table itself is very easy so you can swap between sawing and routing very quickly). When funds allow I am going to purchase a TS55 so that I can leave the TS75 in the CMS and use the TS55 with a rail.
6. I had the same dilemma and decided to go for the CT33, again simply because I did not want to feel frustrated by the smaller capacity of the CT22. The only difference between them is capacity so its really up to you, either will do the job.
7. The Festool vac hose connecter is fairly flexible, what Metabo sander do you have?
Some other things to bear in mind;
When you mount either the TS75 or TS55 in the CMS module you change the riving knife for a larger one, onto which you fit the saw top guard. This effectively stops you from using just the top of the blade for tenon cheek cuts (ala Norm Abraham) or through housing cuts. If you want to make these cuts with an unguarded blade you need to remove the CMS riving knife and top guard, bit of a fiddle.
To get the best dust extraction from the CMS Saw and Router module you need to buy the dual extractor hose. This fits on both the saw and the router module to extract from the top and bottom.
I am very happy with my CMS set up, I have a very small workshop so it works fine for me.
Hope this helps.
Martin.
Martin
Thanks for the detailed and quick reply!
I have a couple of questions regarding your responses if I may
4. You mention using the sliding table on the MFT, how does this work or do you mean on the CMS? If I can crosscut and rip on the CMS and can do sheet goods with the rail system do I need the MFT? (do you have it?) The sliding rail system and fence seems to swivel for crosscutting and ripping what effect does this have on it's accuracy. Many of the reviews of other portable saw tables raise the issue of poor fences.
5. I have been having the same concern but was worried about the weight of the 75 for use with the rail, how do you find it?
6. I was originally looking at the Mini, then the Midi, now the 22 :? I know it depends on what sort of activity you are doing but roughly how long does it take you to fill the 33. It seemed huge when I saw it in a shop!
7. I have the Metabo SXE 450 Duo
Comments
Does this mean that you have to unmount the saw to remove the riving knife and remount? Seems a bit of a pain, how long does it take?
How compromised is the dust extraction if you do not get the dual hose (another £50 - seem to find alot of these!)
Once again thanks for your help it is very much appreciated.
Regards
Graham
Thanks for the detailed and quick reply!
I have a couple of questions regarding your responses if I may
4. You mention using the sliding table on the MFT, how does this work or do you mean on the CMS? If I can crosscut and rip on the CMS and can do sheet goods with the rail system do I need the MFT? (do you have it?) The sliding rail system and fence seems to swivel for crosscutting and ripping what effect does this have on it's accuracy. Many of the reviews of other portable saw tables raise the issue of poor fences.
5. I have been having the same concern but was worried about the weight of the 75 for use with the rail, how do you find it?
6. I was originally looking at the Mini, then the Midi, now the 22 :? I know it depends on what sort of activity you are doing but roughly how long does it take you to fill the 33. It seemed huge when I saw it in a shop!
7. I have the Metabo SXE 450 Duo
Comments
Does this mean that you have to unmount the saw to remove the riving knife and remount? Seems a bit of a pain, how long does it take?
How compromised is the dust extraction if you do not get the dual hose (another £50 - seem to find alot of these!)
Once again thanks for your help it is very much appreciated.
Regards
Graham
Martingchapman
Established Member
Graham,
4. I meant using the sliding table on the CMS not on the MFT, sorry Senior Moment! I don't have the MFT (don't have room and already have a workbench with side and end vices). The MFT would be useful not just for cutting but as a general work bench if you don't have one but not essential if you have CMS and rail. The fence is totally solid, once set no movement at all. It has detents at various preset angles, and will always go back to exactly 90 degrees. In use there is no deflection either when crosscutting or ripping. Best to try and see one for yourself but in my opinion the fence and sliding table are the real stars of the CMS (I believe they also fit on the MFT/3).
5. Although the 75 is heavier than the 55 I have not found it a problem. I am of small stature with small hands but can manage the 75 on a rail one handed with no problems. Again, if you can get along to a Festool reseller and try the weight for yourself.
6. I am a weekend woodworker so don't do more than a day a week in the workshop. I have filled the 33 twice in a year. If you do the same type of work the 22 would be fine. I have a personal quirk that nags me if I go for a small when I really wanted the large even if I don't really need the large, so I went for the 33.
7. I also have the Metabo Duo, it does not get a lot of use but I think the Festool hose will fit directly, I will try it tonight and report back tomorrow.
Regards removing the riving knife, you have to lift the saw table out of the leg module (release two large screws). Turn the table over, plunge and lock the saw into the halfway position (as if changing the blade) remove a clip, undo the allen screw that holds the riving knife in place and remove it. Release the saw back to the normal position turn the table back the right way up and secure into the leg module again (two large screws again). Probably takes a couple of minutes. To put the riving knife back is of course the reverse of the above procedure, although so far I have not got the knack of getting it in the right position first time so it takes me a little longer.
Hard to say about the dust extraction, I always use both hoses. The dual hose has two different dimensions, one large one small. The large one fits on the saw underneath the table, the small one fits on the saw guard above the table. With the router it is reversed, the large one fits on the back of the fence above the table and the small one on the router below the table. If you did not have the dual hose and only had the single hose then you would have to choose whether to mount it above or below the table. Maybe if you decide to go for the CMS and CT then you will get a hose with the extractor, try one hose and if it is a problem buy the dual. You wont waste the hose that comes with the extractor because you can use this for the saw when using it with a rail.
Martin.
4. I meant using the sliding table on the CMS not on the MFT, sorry Senior Moment! I don't have the MFT (don't have room and already have a workbench with side and end vices). The MFT would be useful not just for cutting but as a general work bench if you don't have one but not essential if you have CMS and rail. The fence is totally solid, once set no movement at all. It has detents at various preset angles, and will always go back to exactly 90 degrees. In use there is no deflection either when crosscutting or ripping. Best to try and see one for yourself but in my opinion the fence and sliding table are the real stars of the CMS (I believe they also fit on the MFT/3).
5. Although the 75 is heavier than the 55 I have not found it a problem. I am of small stature with small hands but can manage the 75 on a rail one handed with no problems. Again, if you can get along to a Festool reseller and try the weight for yourself.
6. I am a weekend woodworker so don't do more than a day a week in the workshop. I have filled the 33 twice in a year. If you do the same type of work the 22 would be fine. I have a personal quirk that nags me if I go for a small when I really wanted the large even if I don't really need the large, so I went for the 33.
7. I also have the Metabo Duo, it does not get a lot of use but I think the Festool hose will fit directly, I will try it tonight and report back tomorrow.
Regards removing the riving knife, you have to lift the saw table out of the leg module (release two large screws). Turn the table over, plunge and lock the saw into the halfway position (as if changing the blade) remove a clip, undo the allen screw that holds the riving knife in place and remove it. Release the saw back to the normal position turn the table back the right way up and secure into the leg module again (two large screws again). Probably takes a couple of minutes. To put the riving knife back is of course the reverse of the above procedure, although so far I have not got the knack of getting it in the right position first time so it takes me a little longer.
Hard to say about the dust extraction, I always use both hoses. The dual hose has two different dimensions, one large one small. The large one fits on the saw underneath the table, the small one fits on the saw guard above the table. With the router it is reversed, the large one fits on the back of the fence above the table and the small one on the router below the table. If you did not have the dual hose and only had the single hose then you would have to choose whether to mount it above or below the table. Maybe if you decide to go for the CMS and CT then you will get a hose with the extractor, try one hose and if it is a problem buy the dual. You wont waste the hose that comes with the extractor because you can use this for the saw when using it with a rail.
Martin.
Martin,
Thanks for the info and advice.
Think a visit to a dealer may help, might also answer the T11 fit question. Might post that one on a new post and see if anyone has experience.
Once again thanks for your help.
Graham
Thanks for the info and advice.
Think a visit to a dealer may help, might also answer the T11 fit question. Might post that one on a new post and see if anyone has experience.
Once again thanks for your help.
Graham
Martingchapman
Established Member
Graham,
Tried the CT33 hose on the Metabo Duo sander last night and it fits perfectly, no adaptors needed (its the same hose on the CT22 if you decide to go that way).
Good luck with the decision.
Martin.
Tried the CT33 hose on the Metabo Duo sander last night and it fits perfectly, no adaptors needed (its the same hose on the CT22 if you decide to go that way).
Good luck with the decision.
Martin.
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