Face side

[Bluekingfisher]

Just clarification required really - For years I have been marking my face side of boards on what will be the eventual outer face of the board, primarly because I thought the better side, or "face side" would face outwards where it could be seen?

Recently I was reading an article where the face side was shown on what would be the inside of the component ( a drawer in this case).

I suspect it doesn't really matter where the face side is providing a consistent approach is taken?

David

 

[marcros]

My thoughts...

if it were the inside of boards that was the reference side, then joints would be reference side to reference side. Your way would be the opposite.

In practice, it probably doesn't matter if you are consistent and the boards are flat and square.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I suspect it doesn't really matter where the face side is providing a consistent approach is taken?

David

I think that's pretty much the nub of it - a method that works for YOU, and don't bother too much about anybody else's quirks.

Years ago, my woodwork teacher at school told us that the better face was selected as the 'show' side of the board, and marked as the face side. The other side, which may have more or worse defects, was thus hidden. I suppose in that case, the outer faces of a carcase or the top face of a table-top would be the 'face' side, but the inner faces of a drawer because more of them would be seen in normal use.

 

[AndyT]

I think the logic for something like a drawer is that the face sides go inside because they can't practically have any more finishing done to them. The outside surfaces get more planing done, to fit each drawer to its own opening. Leastways the front and sides do. The back doesn't matter.
There is a similar logic for frame and panel, where the face edges go inside and the outer perimeter is then planed to fit the doorframe or whatever.

 

[AndyT]

Just to add some evidence of old working practices. ..

I looked at drawers on three old handmade pieces of furniture. Ordinary old stuff from the late C19th.
All had face marks on the end / back of the drawers, all on the outside, unseen face.

So much for my logic!

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Interesting, particularly the point of a face side being on the inside of a drawer box. That would make perfect sense as finishing the inside is difficult after assembly.

I am not formerly trained, just as with CC, my instruction was taken from my school woodwork teacher and it has just stuck since then.

David

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Formally?

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Well done Wilson, you spotted my deliberate mistake. =D>

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Who's Wilson?

 

[blackrodd]

I was taught that the face side and face edge were seen at the job's end, so were the best,
Also face side and edge went against the fence for all the work, either by hand or machine.
Regards Rodders

 

[blackrodd]

Who's Wilson?

Sherlock Gnome's sidekick, innit!
Rodders

 

[David C]

I was taught and have always insisted that face sides go inside.

They are a datum, i.e. accurate surface. These are the ones we should test for wind.

If we make a drawer or any single lap dovetail it is essential that the true face goes inside. This is the one we gauge from and any wind results in loss of height. In general exterior surfaces are planed after glue up.

When making a table, face sides and edges of legs point inwards.

I suspect that face side out is a nasty American perversion!

David

PS Now Wearing says some constructions have face side out, and some in. I would like to hear about ones which are better with face sides out, please.

 

[Mr T]

I was taught and have always insisted that face sides go inside.

They are a datum, i.e. accurate surface. These are the ones we should test for wind.

If we make a drawer or any single lap dovetail it is essential that the true face goes inside. This is the one we gauge from and any wind results in loss of height. In general exterior surfaces are planed after glue up.

When making a table, face sides and edges of legs point inwards.

I'm with David C. on this.It's what I was taught in woodwork class at Swanmore Secondary School in 1964 and it's what I teach now.

Good face and edge discipline is absolutely vital, it means the project should turn out square. But it also saves time puzzling which joint goes where and avoids that embarrassing realization that you have morticed on the wrong side. However students seem to find it rather boring when I go off on one about face side and edge!

Chris

 

[custard]

I would like to hear about ones which are better with face sides out, please.

I agree the face is the the datum rather than the show face and should therefore generally be inside. One exception is drawer boxes where I was taught to mark the outside faces. The drawer sides have a quadrant in the outside front lower corners, the drawer front has a semi circle down by the outside lower edge, and the back has a semi circle with a vertical line through it, again on the outside lower edge. The components retain these marks until after glue up, and it would be difficult to remove them if they were on the inside.

 

[David C]

However these marks are an aid to keeping pieces in the right place. They are nothing to do with accuracy.

It is essential that the inside surface of a drawer has no wind.

Also we want our internal shoulder lines to meet seamlessly. Hence inside surfaces are datum.

The exterior is planed to fit the carcase opening which may well be crooked!

David

 

[Sgian Dubh]

In examining old tables it's not too uncommon to see the inside face of rails are rough, either straight off a reciprocating saw of some sort, or even rough hewn, even sometimes tapered in width. It has to be assumed therefore that the workers only concerned themselves with the 'face side', and 'face edge', with the second edge also planed true off the face side and face edge. It also has to be assumed the marking of the mortice and tenons was taken from these faces which, of course, were also the 'money' side. I've observed similar shortcuts in wood preparation in old cabinets too, so my conclusion is that in hand woodworking choosing the face side and edge of a rough board was a critical first stage of the process.

As to my usage of face side and edge marks, I simply use them as indicating which ones were planed flat first in the machining process in order to keep track of where I am in the squaring up routine. This work method doesn't really correspond to exclusive hand tool working I know, but because I generally use machines to square up the wood, it's really only later I decide which is the show face, e.g., for making up a table top, or arranging the grain pattern of legs, rails, drawer parts, etc. Slainte.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Who's Wilson?

- As in Dads Army, c'mon, wakey wakey! :wink:

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Interesting responses for what I would have thought would have been a fundemental ?

Anyway, thanks to all, much appreciated.

David

 

[Zeddedhed]

I'm with Sgian Dubh on this one. Until I've got my timber down to size I don't really know which boards will look best together. We mark Face Side and Edge for machining references and then once the timber is thicknessed and finished to width we layout our boards and then re-mark everything prior to the joinery and assembly.

 

[rwyoung]

... snip to address only the postscript ...
PS Now Wearing says some constructions have face side out, and some in. I would like to hear about ones which are better with face sides out, please.

In "The Essential Woodworker", R.W. makes it a point to call it the "true face" to distinguish it from a "show face" or "show surface". Same goes for "true edge".

I think this terminology eliminates most of the confusion about the purpose of the edge/face.

Later in illustrations showing how to layout for a mortise and tenon in a small table, he has the true face and true edge of the leg facing out so they are the show faces. As this is a table with a small reveal between the leg surface and the apron, it makes some sense.

The legs should obviously be very CLOSE to the same size (if not identical but hey, whose counting molecules anyway?). Otherwise the aprons would be of different length shoulder-to-shoulder and that can't be good practice!

In his illustrations, the aprons would also have their true face out (and I would have though true edge up to meet the table-top but it is shown DOWN). Now the absolute thickness of the aprons isn't critical as any variance is thrown to the inside. However it would look odd to have one aprons 1/2" thick and the rest 7/8" thick. Throwing the waste to the inside isn't an excuse for being excessively sloppy either.

Is this the absolute, be-all and end-all method for preparing stock and laying out? Probably not. But it does work. As with most methods, one must engage brain before engaging the work. Thinking through the process is the key.

(I shall go find a comfy chair in which to sit while being politely eviscerated by David C. and others.)

((edited to clarify remark about face edge orientation))