Face frame - what to do with the bottom shelf?

[miles_hot]

I am about to build a shelf unit out of ply (18mm) and I would prefer that the ply edges are not shown. The unit will sit on a plinth, sited against a wall with the left hand side sticking into the room (forming a divider).

My initial thought was to just apply lipping to all exposed edges (say 18mm) flush on both sides with the ply. Then I wondered about a face frame. Now I can see what to do with the sides (lipping flush to the outside edge of the ply over hanging by x on the inside. I can also understand that the shelves and top should be flush on the top surface and overhanging by x at the bottom. How much should X be on an 18mm sheet?

What is really foxing me is what should I do with the bottom given there is a plinth? Should I
1) Overhang by X and then box in the gap between the edging and the plinth
2) Move the plinth out to start just behind the edging - i.e. 18mm from the front of the unit
3) Have the edging flush with the top and bottom of the bottom - making it appear thinner than the other shelves
4) Leave it hanging in space (which seems really odd!)
5) Have it flush at the bottom and sticking up by x which will mean that the bottom shelve has a lip
6) Make the bottom shelve X thicker to give substance to the facing - i.e the facing is actually sticking up by X but I've infilled that space with more shelf (suggesting that x should be 18mm to make this as easy as possible.
7) something I haven't thought of!

Of all the ideas 6 seems the most sensible, its just that I don't remember ever seeing this done in any articles I've read! Can you help me out here? Or should it just be flush both sides edging??

Many thanks

Miles

 

[mtr1]

I think no6 is kind of how I'm doing one at the moment, when I get in the shop I will take a few snaps and post em up.

 

[Benchwayze]

Miles,


If you are setting the unit on a plinth, it's usual to have 'kicking space' under the bottom shelf or 'floor' of the unit. That leaves room for feet, so we can get 'close-up and personal' with the unit, and most of us need three to four inches of set-back under the lower shelf. The extra thickness on the bottom shelf sounds fine, but isn't absolutely necessary. It is a design feature of course so the best of luck!

HTH

Regards
Jhn

 

[mtr1]

Benchwayze is correct if you are making kitchen units?

Anyway this is how I'm doing it for a wardrobe....

I brought the face frame up slightly because the wardrobe is 3m tall

I'm about to mitre and bead the joining rail that butts up against.

Then my plinth covers.

Hope that explains how I'm doing it, if you are doing kitchen units then you would set the plinth back as benchwayze has already said.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Mark,

Yes for kitchen units, definitely. Still, I find 'kicking-space' useful on tall bookcases too; and my own free-standing furniture either has feet or the kicking-space anyway! As a signature on the Forum says:

That's not a mistake; it's a design feature!

I particularly like to put feet on drawer chests and so on. It gives me somewhere to store things like camera tripods and other awkward items. Too lazy to make proper cupboard storage! :mrgreen:
Regards

John

 

[miles_hot]

I was planning on setting the plinth back from the face of the unit (somewhere for toes and to slightly hide the probably poor scribbing to the floor tiles). At the unit will be visible from the side (and there will be some element of toe space here as well) I was confused as to what to do with the face frame.
Benchwayze I'm a little confused by your statement that the infilling bit isn't necessary as
- if it sticks up (i.e. is flush with the bottom of the bottom of the unit) that shelf will have a x lip which I assume will look odd
- if it sticks down (i.e. flush with the bottom shelf) it will look very odd from the side...

It has to be said that I will not have the space to allow for 3" of toe space - the whole thing is only 6-7" deep Mind you, that said I could make it look like it's floating off floor a bit...could be an intersting idea - still doesn't solve the face frame issue though

Would this be better with just flush trimmed edging?

Miles

 

[miles_hot]

Mark - Are you going to fill in the base behind the plinth or is it a feature to retain stuff behind? If you didn't design in that feature woudl you have brought the frame down lower (so that it still rests on the plinth but is flush with the wardrobe floor)?

Thanks

Miles

 

[Benchwayze]

I was planning on setting the plinth back from the face of the unit (somewhere for toes and to slightly hide the probably poor scribbing to the floor tiles). At the unit will be visible from the side (and there will be some element of toe space here as well) I was confused as to what to do with the face frame.
Benchwayze I'm a little confused by your statement that the infilling bit isn't necessary as
- if it sticks up (i.e. is flush with the bottom of the bottom of the unit) that shelf will have a x lip which I assume will look odd
- if it sticks down (i.e. flush with the bottom shelf) it will look very odd from the side...

It has to be said that I will not have the space to allow for 3" of toe space - the whole thing is only 6-7" deep Mind you, that said I could make it look like it's floating off floor a bit...could be an intersting idea - still doesn't solve the face frame issue though

Would this be better with just flush trimmed edging?

Miles

Miles,


Sorry if I confused the issue.
What I meant is....
If the bottom of the cabinet/carcass/case is made from thicker stuff than the sides and top, it won't matter. It doesn't have to be made of thicker material, but if it gives the unit a more stable appearance, then it's fine; a design feature!

For a comparison between face frames and flush fronted cabinets, see Paul Levine's DVD on making kitchen cabinets. I prefer flush fitting doors. They lay-on to the cupboards, and one can use adjustable hinges more easily.



HTH

John

 

[miles_hot]

Cool - I will have to have a think about this. I think I'll buy the lipping and stuff to make the face frame (the lipping is only £30) and see which looks best as the unit is quite small and maybe the face frame will overwhelm it?

I'll post a thread on the shelving for comment / thoughts

Miles

 

[mtr1]

There are a number of reasons why the face frame isn't flush with the bottom of the carcase. Mainly for aesthetics, the plinth is 200mm wide and a standard 38mm rail looks a bit small. Secondly that space is for side hung drawers, so I don't need to come flush, It was an afterthought after I'd placed a 38mm rail there and it looked a bit poo, wasn't going to remake the carcases so re-jigged the drawer size and enlarged the bottom rail to look better. As Benchwayze has in his sig mistakes are design features ready to be exploited. There is no reason why the bottom rail is now acting like an upstand, other than looking right overall, and saving me having to re-jig the bottom carcase.

 

[miles_hot]

thanks Mark