EU Timber and Timber Products Regulations March 2013

[RogerS]

More red tape. Coming into force March 2013.

Unclear what it means for anyone already holding stock of tropical/exotic hardwoods. Trying to find out.

PITA probably. Anyone mentioned these regulations to the illegal importers of China?

 

[tomatwark]

Hi Roger

Have a read of this http://www.trada.co.uk/downloads/constr ... s%20V2.pdf

and http://www.furniturenews.net/news/artic ... tr-mean-me

It is not just tropical timber but all timber and more importantly ( I think ) finished products.

If the ports do their job properly it should have an impact on the Asian imports.

The boffins have figured out how to DNA test timber to species and also where about in the world it has come from.

Basically you need to be able show where the wood came from and where it went.

I think existing stock is exempt but I have been running my timber stock down so that by March it will be about a 1/4 of what it was last year.

Also because of the downturn I am finding more and more that the suppliers are jumping over themselves to get the business and delivering more quickly and smaller orders to me, so I can work on more of a just in time basis now anyway.

I know it means more red tape but if stops some of the illegal trade it may be a good thing, but we will have to wait and see.

This article which I saw last year makes interesting reading and what amazed me was the bit at the end about American White Oak, which goes to show that it is not just tropical hardwoods which are the problem.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19541718


Sorry to ramble on

Tom

 

[RogerS]

.....
I think existing stock is exempt .....
Tom

Did you read that anywhere, Tom? Link?

Edit: Just read the second link and blow me down...seats are exempt. Why do I highlight this? Well, I dipped into a webcast from the EU where they were asking for questions from the floor etc and the fact that seats had been left off the list was one of the questions raised. So the EU still left them off the list!

Which just goes to confirm what we all think about bureaucrats !

 

[tomatwark]

Hi Roger

At the bottom of this link there are various pdf's

http://www.ttf.co.uk/Environment/EU_Legislation_.aspx

The guidance one states :-

The EU Timber Regulation does not have retroactive effect. This means that the prohibition will not apply to timber and timber products placed on the marked before its entry into application on 3rd March 2013. However operators will need to show, when checked by the competent authorities, that they have established a due diligence system which is operational as of 3rd March 2013. Therefore it is important that operators are able to identify their supply before and after that date. The obligation for traceability for traders also applies from that date.
All operators, whether EU or non-EU based, must comply with the prohibition on placing illegally harvested timber on the market and the obligation to exercise due diligence.

So all you need to do is make sure that you do a stock take and document which timber you had before the deadline ( I am going to paint the ends of my timber).

I knew I had read it somewhere.

Tom

 

[RogerBoyle]

Heres my take on it

As Long as you are buying your timber from a recognised source and keep a log of where you have bought it from etc. then you will be fine
I really do not see the Problem here

My timber stock (which is not a lot tbh) has all been bought legally from the Major yards..
The structural stuff has been marked and stamped etc. the rest I have painted the ends which is something I have always done anyway.
I have receipts to prove where it came from and the Quantity’s it was bought in. (I also need this info for my accounts)
I will continue to do so as there is no reason to change

Anybody else that makes his living from wood will do pretty much the same
The general public will be covered as they also will use the bigger sheds and Yards

Now if i was an Importer of Timber then yes I would have something to worry about .......................
Personally I think it’s more likely that we will shortly see a major hike in the price of timber. Or is that just the cynic in me

Roger

 

[tomatwark]

Roger Boyle

I think you are right and that is exactly what I am doing, but will also come up with a simple spread sheet so I can show where it went as well, I need to do this anyway as I do supply some retailers as well as end users and need to continue the chain on to the retailers.

I am not sure if it will have a major effect on timber prices though as most suppliers/importers already have the necessary controls in place and have done for a while now.

Hopefully from a manufacturers view it may put the prices of imported furniture up a bit as a lot of the importers and retailers will not have had to do this before, and this may make the market a little more balanced at the mid to top end price range and may in the long term help UK makers a bit.

There will always be cheap stuff around though made for a bowel of rice a week and sold by the superstores.

Tom

 

[RogerBoyle]

Hopefully from a manufacturers view it may put the prices of imported furniture up a bit as a lot of the importers and retailers will not have had to do this before, and this may make the market a little more balanced at the mid to top end price range and may in the long term help UK makers a bit.

There will always be cheap stuff around though made for a bowel of rice a week and sold by the superstores.

Tom

Tom I totally agree with that and really hope that is the case
But you know what this country is Like LOL

 

[RogerS]

I wonder what the effect will be on the likes of Pugh's and their auctions? They do have tropical/exotics from time to time.

 

[RogerS]

......

So all you need to do is make sure that you do a stock take and document which timber you had before the deadline ( I am going to paint the ends of my timber).

I knew I had read it somewhere.

Tom

Bit like keeping drums of red and black 2.5mm twin-and-earth then !!

 

[tomatwark]

I wonder what the effect will be on the likes of Pugh's and their auctions? They do have tropical/exotics from time to time.

I suspect that if an auction house are selling it as surplus stock, the person they selling it for will have to provide chain of supply for it, however if it is from a company that has gone bust it will be a bit more tricky.

I may then come under reclaimed or salvaged timber which I understand is not included in this law.

One advantage this may have is the price of timber at auctions may fall as the bigger companies will not want the hassle of it getting mixed up with their stock supplied by their regular supplier.

It is not just tropical stuff though it is all timber based products including temperate timbers, sheet materials, firewood and even wooden spoons.

Tom

 

[RogerS]

The auctions at Pugh's have timber from a wide range of sources. Some comes from guys who have felled the trees (local tree surgeons and the like). Others from trees that have been felled a long time ago and have lain in stick at the back of a farmer's barn. And other stuff comes from people like me who have too much and want to sell it on. Also from small furniture companies that have either gone bust or are retiring.

However, I'm not sure that these regulations apply to wood from trees that are grown in the UK. I believe that there are other regulations ranging from Tree Preservation Orders to Forestry Commission doodahs.

 

[ankledeep]

Oh do stop panicking, unless you are a "trader" in timber..i.e you are buying and selling TIMBER to other TRADERS then all you need to do is keep a record of whom you bought your timber from (hint ...receipts) and..if you are selling your products on as I do to (say) a garden center...then a record of whom you sold it to (likewise hint.....invoices) Just add batch no's to the stuff and make it identifiable; dead easy with a small rubber stamp ....record batch no's on receipts and invoices and bobs yer granny.....also...batch no's or other identification should of course be obtainable from YOUR supplier.

It will involve little, if any, extra record keeping since anyone trading will of course be keeping the necessary records in any case, all it takes is a way of correllating them a PoP really. If you wanted to be absolutely sure you could issue the necessary batch no on the receipts to even your individual (private) customers (which isnt actually necessary). You COULD make this big, obvious and part of your "eco statement" good advertising ploy, doubtless you could also..if you were cynical enough, use the same to up your prices, and explain that its due to the unnecessary cost of compliance with mad EU legislation. But then we are not that cynical.....are we :?: (hammer)

 

[MARK.B.]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i wonder just how many other countries are going to to play by the rules :-k

 

[RogerBoyle]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i wonder just how many other countries are going to to play by the rules :-k

 

[tomatwark]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i wonder just how many other countries are going to to play by the rules :-k

I suspect a smuggling route will develop through the former Eastern Block countries and once it is across the border into one of the ones which has joined the EU it will suddenly have all the correct paper work printed up in a back street somewhere.

With timber imports Customs in this country already have people in place to look at this, but I wonder with all the government cuts if they will be able to police this properly.

I suspect not.

I am not against this law, which considering I think most of the laws made by the over paid tourists (MEP'S) in the European travelling circus are a waste of time is suprising really.

If it helps to protect some of the worlds timber stocks for the future it can't be a bad thing, it is not going to take a lot more paper work to keep on top of anyway.

Tom

 

[RogerS]

OK...from the horses mouth.

Briefly stated, the EU Timber Regulation only applies to timber which has been 'placed on the market' after 3rd March 2013. So any timber you have in stock that pre-dates the regulation will be exempt from it.

'placed on the market' is one of those legalistic euro-speak terms that means very little to most people. Essentially, goods are considered to have been placed on the market once they have cleared customs in the UK/EU and are made available for free circulation.

Taking your surplus timber example, the timber you have now is placed on the market already. Timber can only be placed on the market once, so if you sell this timber after March, it is not placed on the market for a second time. That said, from March you will need to maintain records of any other traders you supply timber to, and the traders in question would need to record who they have purchased the timber from.

So if I understand you correctly then after 3rd March if I sell some of my surplus stock to another cabinet maker (aka trader) then I just need to keep a record ?

Has the level of detail been defined? Is 'Sold - 2m x 50mm x 300mm board of surplus mahogany - to A.N. Other Cabinet Maker on 8th June 2013' sufficient? I may no idea what type of mahogany it is, to be honest.

That sounds fine - as long as you can demonstrate what you have sold and to who, you should be fine. It is important however that you obtain the address of the company in question, so that should we need to, we could visit them too.

 

[Peter Gee]

non vale la pena...

 

[tomatwark]

OK...from the horses mouth.



So if I understand you correctly then after 3rd March if I sell some of my surplus stock to another cabinet maker (aka trader) then I just need to keep a record ?

Has the level of detail been defined? Is 'Sold - 2m x 50mm x 300mm board of surplus mahogany - to A.N. Other Cabinet Maker on 8th June 2013' sufficient? I may no idea what type of mahogany it is, to be honest.

[/color]

Only if you have bought the stock after the 3rd of March and your supplier has placed it on the market after then, that is how I undertstand it, otherwise it is just old stock which will be in your stock take at the beginning of March.

Peter

The UK has had fairly strict import regs for timber for a number years any way and on the whole they work quite well, the real difference this new law will make is it now applies to the import of finished goods as well which means that the Chinese will find it a lot harder to buy illegally harvested timber and then pass it off as something else by including it in a finished product for import into the EU.

The other point is that the US has also introduced similar regs as well, this may mean that with the EU and the US doing this it may just stand a chance of making a small difference to illegal harvesting.

The US have already have had some high profile court cases including Gibson Guitars.

Tom

 

[RogerS]

Not quite Tom.

That said, from March you will need to maintain records of any other traders you supply timber to, and the traders in question would need to record who they have purchased the timber from.

...... which means that the Chinese will find it a lot harder to buy illegally harvested timber and then pass it off as something else by including it in a finished product for import into the EU.

I think you might be being overly optimistic, Tom!

 

[tomatwark]

I know I am :roll: