Dyeing Cascamite black

[n0legs]

Don't think I've gone completely bonkers :-"
Has anyone tried to dye Cascamite/Polymite or do any of you have any suggestions how to do it ?
I have a project in mind that requires some laminations, and after searching Cascamite seems to be the adhesive of choice due to it's lack of creep.
So rather than try to hide the glue lines I thought I might "celebrate" them by making them darker a bit like a pin stripe.
I guess trial and error is the way to find out, but I'm really struggling what to use as a dye. My only thought so far is graphite powder mixed in with it or using artists charcoal.
After a few searches some say about using Cascamite as a filler and dyeing it with a spirit based stain, but wouldn't that cause a problem with the mixing with water (oil and water style problem).

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Use resorcinol for purple lines?

 

[n0legs]

Use resorcinol for purple lines?

Very interesting, thank you Phil.

 

[MIGNAL]

Cascamite is water based, so any water based dye will be compatible. You could try your charcoal, lampblack or Indian ink. Not sure if you will get a decent looking pin stripe. It's a case of trying and seeing how it turns out.

 

[n0legs]

Cascamite is water based, so any water based dye will be compatible. You could try your charcoal, lampblack or Indian ink. Not sure if you will get a decent looking pin stripe. It's a case of trying and seeing how it turns out.

I think my other issue is whether the joint lines would remain constant and therefore have a continual effect. Trying it is the acid test.
Would you have any idea of ratios for mixing and do you think with the addition of some colouring agent I may lose the strength of the glue ?

 

[Myfordman]

Another possibility is laser printer toner - there is usually more than enough left in an 'empty' one.
Or use the pigments sold for colouring mortar.
There is an ebay vendor who sells sample packs.
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/cemcraft?_trks ... 7675.l2563
I have a selection those pigments that I mix with epoxy to fill knots on 'character' timber projects. Once cured it sands well and makes a tidy job. A little goes a long way.

 

[Normancb]

Pretty much any artists powder colour should work and with black you will need very little to get colour.

You could try Cornelissen (www.cornelissen.com) - they sell just about any known pigment. A local art shop will also probably have something.

The amount you need to get black will have no effect on joint strength

 

[n0legs]

Another possibility is laser printer toner - there is usually more than enough left in an 'empty' one.
Or use the pigments sold for colouring mortar.
There is an ebay vendor who sells sample packs.
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/cemcraft?_trks ... 7675.l2563
I have a selection those pigments that I mix with epoxy to fill knots on 'character' timber projects. Once cured it sands well and makes a tidy job. A little goes a long way.

Good ideas thank you. I've used the mortar colours in the past but hadn't thought of using them for anything wood related.
Another tip loaded into my memory banks, cheers.

 

[CHJ]

Believe it or not but you can get away with spirit stains as well, the spirit evaporates off quickly if added to powder and mixed in, activating water mixes with powder no problems.

Have not had any glue line failures or noted any problems and have been doing this for some time, only started as a trial when I did not have water based stains to hand.

 

[n0legs]

Pretty much any artists powder colour should work and with black you will need very little to get colour.

You could try Cornelissen (http://www.cornelissen.com) - they sell just about any known pigment. A local art shop will also probably have something.

The amount you need to get black will have no effect on joint strength

Had a quick look and wow what a selection, some good prices to.
Good advice, thank you.

 

[n0legs]

Believe it or not but you can get away with spirit stains as well, the spirit evaporates off quickly if added to powder and mixed in, activating water mixes with powder no problems.

Have not had any glue line failures or noted any problems and have been doing this for some time, only started as a trial when I did not have water based stains to hand.

Thanks for that Chas, good to know.

On to the next stage of some trials now that I'm armed with some choices.

 

[andersonec]

Everbuild D3 PVA is creep resistant.

Andy

 

[CHJ]

Everbuild D3 PVA is creep resistant.

Andy

Not quite the same as "No Creep" if making things like bangles or other closed segmented pieces even a few hundredths of a millimetre can be felt across the join.

 

[custard]

You raise an interesting point. UL39 glue, which is widely used in commercial cabinet making workshops, is fairly similar to Extramite/Cascamite, and is regularly tinted to minimise the visibility of glue lines or to patch the voids on burr veneers. The colouring agents that I've seen used have always been powdered earth colours. If you want black then powdered lamp black would be the stuff to use, you only need a tiny pinch. I've never seen any kind of liquid colour used, that's not to say it can't be used just that I'm only familiar with powdered colour.

This technique is pretty effective, although it can go badly wrong on very pale woods like sycamore, where titanium white is sometimes added to the adhesive. Looks great at first, but over time the wood darkens slightly where as the glue line stays bright white and becomes glaringly obvious!

 

[Peter Sefton]

We have always used dry earth pigments, cant say I have used black as you are trying but we use White for hiding glue lines within Sycamore and Brown Umber or similar when laying Burr Walnut veneer to fill in all the small pip holes you can get in burrs.
http://www.agwoodcare.co.uk/Item/fiddes ... er_colours
I have also used a liquid pigment sold with one of the commercial UF glues we use but it is more expensive and just not worth it.
Do some tests and let us know how you get on.
Cheers Peter

 

[n0legs]

Well thanks to all of you for the input.
Some interesting advice here.
There's an art shop in my village and I'm calling in tomorrow for some colour/pigment. I'll be trying some of the glue out on the weekend so I will update this and let you all know how we've got on.

 

[Mr T]

Vandyke crystals are very good for colouring cascamite, mix them in with the water before adding the powder. I use them when veneering with darker burrs such as walnut and oak. They are quite strong so you don't need much. However they will only give you dark brown, not black! Earth pigments are also good but you may need a lot to get a really black look.

I find Vandyke crystals are a really useful stain generally especially for colouring new oak to match old in restoration.


Chris

 

[Exile]

Post some pictures of the cue when youre done. Id be keen to see it.

I'm assuming its a cue with the clues given:

1. Black
2. Laminations
3. No Creep
4. Cascamite

am i close?

 

[n0legs]

No, it's not for a cue. It's no secret though, I'm thinking of some bent legs for a hallway table.
I might have a go at steam bending them, still plotting and planning at the moment.
Good guess on a cue though.