drying logs

[hazel]

at the moment we have been piling up logs with bits of pallet wood in between for ventilation, and varrier bags over the ends. However, I am wanting to creat a proper drying rack and find something better than the carrier bags. We have a small garage which is currently empty (bar my bike) so going to build something in there, as such water proofing or roofing is not an issue. I am aware outside would be better, but we have no where to put anything so have to use what we've got


Any system or stucture that peopel advise? It will probably be made out of pallet wood as we have access to a lot of that. Don't want it to take up too much of the garage as I also plan to build a pole-lathe in there once I figure out the spesifics. Also what's best for sealing? At wook we use a special paint for it but that seems to be very pricey and I am not sure if it's actually better than using a "normal" pain or maybe wax or even glue.



And lastly... as I am noisey how do YOU store your logs?

 

[Cottonwood]

The problem with keeping logs inside a garage or other sealed building is that you lose a lot of drying power from sun and wind. In fact logs can go mouldy without plenty of air to dry them. One advantage of being inside though is that you could use the existing wall for a lean to structure.
The main thing to bear in mind is to keep them well up off the ground as you have been doing with the pallets. A simple roof can be a tin sheet on the top of the stack weighed down with bricks or concrete blocks. If you have a side or back section, make it open like a picket fence, so air can get in. The odd wetting from rain isnt an issue, its when the logs are constantly damp as when in contact with the ground. The other thing is (if you dont have a cat) get vermin traps to kill the mice or rats which will try to make the log pile their home. Its a hassle when you want to bring a load of logs indoors and they are coated with millions of droppings

 

[hazel]

ah, I had not thought of the lack of the sun indoors... that makes sense actually as when I was a child out log pile was inside and often went rotten and was full of rats. I always assumed it was due tot he shed it was kept in (a very old and badly maintained wooded shed). We don't really have anywhere outside that I'd feel ok about building unfortunately. I do have a cat, but she fails as a hunter lol so ye traps may be an idea, we used to shoot them when I was little but as I live in a city now I don't think that will be looked upon too kindly.

 

[Cottonwood]

The other thing you could consider is setting up some sort of fan system inside the garage? I personally have never done it, but have thought about it, maybe get a couple of cheap old fans off ebay or freecycle or whatever, just have them blowing air around or through the stack constantly, maybe have an open window or a louvre ventialtion panel to allow damp air to escape...Maybe have a couple of fans blowing air out through a couple of louvre exits, constantly sucking air through the garage? Just a thought. Its like clothes, if you leave them damp with no air to dry them, they often dry very slow and go smelly. Good luck with the project any way

 

[hazel]

unfortunately the garage has no power

 

[Sgian Dubh]

The biggest driver for air drying wood is air movement. Heat is of relatively less importance, although it has a role. The reason for air movement being critical is that something needs to take away the moist air that has become moist through taking on water evaporated from the wood. This movement brings drier air to the wood surface which is capable of absorbing more moisture, and is then carried away. So a sealed garage is of little use to you because it will set up ideal conditions for mould development.

Your second problem will be getting the wood dried all the way through because if your logs are large in diameter, e.g., 6", 8" or more, and longer that a foot or two, it could take many years to dry all through to EMC.

However, your greatest challenge will be preventing the logs from splitting in one, two, or more places, and there are two common ways of doing that. First, you make a cut following the length of the log from the bark to the pith-- as the wood shrinks this cut will usually open up creating roughly the equivalent of a circle's segment, although it may also split in other places. Secondly you could bore a ~2" diameter hole right through the centre of the log. This hole gives the wood around it somewhere into which it can shrink, and your log is less likely to split because of this.

Of course, splitting may be of no importance to you, but you won't be able to dry your wood successfully without air movement, so a shed open on at least two opposite sides would be better for that than your garage, unless you can engineer a decent airflow in their. Airflow at a steady slow walking pace would be a good speed to aim for. Slainte.

 

[hazel]

hmm, I may have to have a rethink then... a hole through the centre isn't really viable as we are wanting to turn most of the logs. For my stuff (being a carver) spliting isn't such an issue as I can work with or round that, but for my partner (who does turning) it will be. I guess we could turn stuff green and then dry it, but as the majority of our current logs are yew and they are prone to splitting not sure that's viable either... may see if can find someone to cut some of it into "blanks" as then it may dry faster, but that doesn't help with the air movement.


will have a think


thanks for all the advise, new to this whole drying thing as in past have either gotten our timber pre-seasoned or have worked with it green but with far smaller diameters

 

[Cottonwood]

Apologies, I had assumed you were drying logs for to burn in a stove...oops The sun would play havoc with it...
How big diameter are they? Anything much more than 3 or 4 inches is going to take an era to dry. I have turned alder, beech and lime (up to 13 inch diameter) on a pole lathe. I got the logs (up to 24") from a certain place, then crosscut them to length, then managed to split them into 1/3's to get roughly bowl shaped blanks. While they were being stored they had 2 or 3 coats of old gloss on the ends to prevent them drying too fast and cracking. As you will know, after turning green wood the bowl will distort to oval shaped as it dries, but that is part of their appeal..
Also you could consider splitting logs into planks. I have done this a few times. Chestnut works well as does ash and oak. I got a big clear log, probaly almost 24 inch, and split it into 4 inch thick planks with axe and wood wedges. Again, I painted the end grain then let it dry out in its own time, just stacked against the wall. 4" thick isnt going to sag. You could get your own turning blanks by using a turning saw to cut circles out of riven planks

 

[blackrodd]

Cold, damp air which will lay close to the ground, is going to be a problem for you, in you're unheated garage. it will make the wood mouldy and stained and encourage damp loving insects. and will end up on the fire. A good air flow is important, outside is best for the natural airflow and a rough galvanised roof, mentioned, is ideal. Don't forget the 1"x1"air-gap sticks in between the layers of drying timber which must be level as the timber will be a "bad shape" otherwise. a wax, tar or any good paint applied to the ends will stop major shrinkage by the ends drying far too fast Expensive timber, Jap oak, for instance, came in by the lorry load with strips of timber, about 1/2" thick nailed across the end to help prevent this. Have you ever considered using an old freezer, which will be insulated and making a kiln? I think there's plans out "There" Google or U tube. they are pence to run hourly, most stuff needed will be from a re cycle place. I've seen a refridgerated lorry body used! (Ido go on, sorry)! Ihope this helps Rodders

 

[Sgian Dubh]

For my stuff (being a carver) spliting isn't such an issue as I can work with or round that, but for my partner (who does turning) it will be.

You may find it useful, given what you've said, to investigate wood stabilising techniques other than drying, e.g., pentacryl and polyethylene glycol (PEG). Both are popular with turners.

Given your questions and responses, I suspect you have quite some way to go to understand wood and its behaviour, and I suggest you try to find reputable sources for developing your knowledge. Forums such as this one can have a role, although you should be wary of them because they have quite a reputation for promulgating misinformation, half-truths, and unsupported and inaccurate suppositions in amongst the good and excellent stuff. Probably your best source of information, even now in the so-called information age, are reputable books and academic papers produced by authors with hard won reputations and credentials. Of course, here I am spouting off on a forum, which is ironic because all I've said could just be pure cobblers, ha, ha! Slainte.

 

[hazel]

Have you ever considered using an old freezer, which will be insulated and making a kiln? I think there's plans out "There" Google or U tube. they are pence to run hourly, most stuff needed will be from a re cycle place. I've seen a refridgerated lorry body used! (Ido go on, sorry)! Ihope this helps Rodders

that is an interesting idea I will look into that

Given your questions and responses, I suspect you have quite some way to go to understand wood and its behaviour, and I suggest you try to find reputable sources for developing your knowledge. Forums such as this one can have a role, although you should be wary of them because they have quite a reputation for promulgating misinformation, half-truths, and unsupported and inaccurate suppositions in amongst the good and excellent stuff. Probably your best source of information, even now in the so-called information age, are reputable books and academic papers produced by authors with hard won reputations and credentials. Of course, here I am spouting off on a forum, which is ironic because all I've said could just be pure cobblers, ha, ha! Slainte.

I'm first to admit I am still learning... I have been working with wood most of my life (first assisted in building a boat at age 7) and have been carving since I was about 12, but I only recently started it as an occupation and only just started a course to train as a joiner. There are some areas of woodwork I can do withou much thought but other areas I am totally new to and feel there is only so much I can gain from books. Not going to take everything I read on here as gospel though just nice to get other peoples experiances, ideas and veiwpoints

 

[hazel]

How big diameter are they? Anything much more than 3 or 4 inches is going to take an era to dry. I have turned alder, beech and lime (up to 13 inch diameter) on a pole lathe. I got the logs (up to 24") from a certain place, then crosscut them to length, then managed to split them into 1/3's to get roughly bowl shaped blanks. While they were being stored they had 2 or 3 coats of old gloss on the ends to prevent them drying too fast and cracking. As you will know, after turning green wood the bowl will distort to oval shaped as it dries, but that is part of their appeal..
Also you could consider splitting logs into planks. I have done this a few times. Chestnut works well as does ash and oak. I got a big clear log, probaly almost 24 inch, and split it into 4 inch thick planks with axe and wood wedges. Again, I painted the end grain then let it dry out in its own time, just stacked against the wall. 4" thick isnt going to sag. You could get your own turning blanks by using a turning saw to cut circles out of riven planks

Splitting into planks has been something we've considerered, but not something we want to do with all of them as we A) have a lot, and B) want to create a drying system as it's something we feel will be beneficial in the future and shomething we should do sooner rather than later.

Most the logs are fairly large, I calculated upwards of 10 years for some to dry... but witht he lack of access to a kiln guess patience is a virtue lol.

We mainly have Yew at the moment, and a bit of birch and holly. But a lot of the birch will be used green (I'm making some green chairs). I have heard that Yew is very pron to splitting so that is my greatest concern, and also the largest by diameter. We have some holly and birch that are being dried outside but not at our house as there is nowhere to do so (well there is but it's a rented house and not sure we are allowed to build a structure outside, even a temporary one), it's been dying for about 2 months now so has long way to go, and there is some splitting already :/ . But I expected a bit of splitting as still learning this.

May ask the landlady if she would mind a small structure built outside...

we also have a sort of store room outside which I think used to be an outside toilet that we could get power to, so that may be better than the garage. But it's far smaller so that will probably limit air flow unfortunately.


Starting to think that using most of the logs green may be the best plan to be honest until I figure out a solution. Or I could see if my place of work would let me dry some there as there is a kiln and a drying rack, but if possible wanting to have my own rather than using theirs as I already steal their machines often when need something that we don't have in our workshop lol.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

If you think yews bad for splitting, wait till you see the holly

 

[hazel]

oh dear lol. Never used any holly before and not got much abou tit in my books so hadn't been warned on that one lol