Chrispy
Established Member
Who said that wood turners work was not valued.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Edward-Moulth ... 27d56b7b49
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Edward-Moulth ... 27d56b7b49
Drat missed it!
- Thread starter Chrispy
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bugbear
Established Member
Chrispy":21quz07h said:
I guess that'll be "Art", then.
BugBear
Tazmaniandevil
Established Member
I saw this last week. Just goes to show.....
practice, practice, practice......
practice, practice, practice......
Bodrighy
Established Member
It's the name that is being sold not the turning. If you have gained a name it is surprising what prices you can command, especially in the states where wood turning is seen as an art form . Have a look at Cindy Drozda's prices
http://www.woodturner.org/resources/bb/a_g_gallery/Drozda/
Pete ( another poor woodturner LOL)
http://www.woodturner.org/resources/bb/a_g_gallery/Drozda/
Pete ( another poor woodturner LOL)
Bodrighy
Established Member
Hobbyist can be craftsman or artist. What makes your work worth a lot is, apart from the quality and design, good marketing, promotion and being in the right place at the right time.
Pete
Pete
Steve922
Established Member
Doesn't it demonstrate that there are lots of people with lots of money to spend? It never fails to amaze me to see such silly prices for non-essential goods.
Why is that a silly price? How many hours of highly skilled work went into that piece?
Prices of turned work are governed more by what the market will bear than by time and materials, which generally means that it is pretty difficult to make it pay as well as a job once the overheads are covered. You should be glad that there are at least some people who really do value the craftsmanship ethic, we live in an age where such skills are not truly appreciated, a lot of people would happily buy a bowl from ikea in kit form for a tenner.
Prices of turned work are governed more by what the market will bear than by time and materials, which generally means that it is pretty difficult to make it pay as well as a job once the overheads are covered. You should be glad that there are at least some people who really do value the craftsmanship ethic, we live in an age where such skills are not truly appreciated, a lot of people would happily buy a bowl from ikea in kit form for a tenner.
Tazmaniandevil
Established Member
This is true. I have been in galleries where art is priced on the piece and the reaction of some folk is comical.KimG":3l7hjdw5 said:
I get almost all of my timber free. Apart from some pens I have not paid for any blanks.
Take into account though the cost of timber, tools, finishes, power, premises, and the time taken to produce something turned. It all mounts up. I have sold some of my bits & bobs. I most probably don't cover the costs of producing them, but then I'm not trying to make a living out of it.
Bodrighy
Established Member
Steve922":236fr23t said:
One of the most idiotic questions I get asked is 'what's it for' as if everything has to have some practical purpose. In this country there seems to be a lack of appreciation for anything that is remotely artistic and if it is made of wood even more so. As has been said by the time the cost of the materials (whether you pay for it or not) consumables, time and your skill are all added up I suspect many turners undercharge. If people started charging a decent price for the things they make maybe Joe Public would start appreciating it more instead of seeing it as a cheap hobby thing that someone knocks up in a shed. I find that people will assume that something with a decent price on it actually has value whereas sell it cheap and people assume it is cheap.
Rant over............... for the moment
Pete
Richard Findley
Established Member
In my experience, the people most guilty of undervaluing woodturning are turners themselves.
A key problem is that people often start selling their work before they are good enough to do so, which presents poor work to the outside world. Even once a turner has the skills this attitude of "I only want to get the money back for the wood" and selling a bowl for £8 when the blank cost £6 does no one any favours.
I must admit that I don't let it concern me these days because I work in a whole different market place where I give a price and either get the job or I don't.
If you like an item that is £1000 and can afford it then buy it. If not then don't. Simples!
Richard
A key problem is that people often start selling their work before they are good enough to do so, which presents poor work to the outside world. Even once a turner has the skills this attitude of "I only want to get the money back for the wood" and selling a bowl for £8 when the blank cost £6 does no one any favours.
I must admit that I don't let it concern me these days because I work in a whole different market place where I give a price and either get the job or I don't.
If you like an item that is £1000 and can afford it then buy it. If not then don't. Simples!
Richard
nev
Established Member
which raises an interesting conundrum.
I see by the description that the form has warped and has an uneven base. I am guessing that this was not intended by the artist (as his preparations as stated were to prevent this) so if I take the form re chuck it and flatten the bottom, probably removing the signature is it still of the same value?
it would still be created by the same artist, could still have providence but would it be the same?
No? because I (unknown amateur) planed the bottom?
What if Damien Hurst or Chippendale or (insert accepted current master craftsman/artist name)adjusted it? would it then be 'worth' more?
Whichever you choose it just goes to show that the object in question has very little to do with the price someone is willing to pay for something.
I see by the description that the form has warped and has an uneven base. I am guessing that this was not intended by the artist (as his preparations as stated were to prevent this) so if I take the form re chuck it and flatten the bottom, probably removing the signature is it still of the same value?
it would still be created by the same artist, could still have providence but would it be the same?
No? because I (unknown amateur) planed the bottom?
What if Damien Hurst or Chippendale or (insert accepted current master craftsman/artist name)adjusted it? would it then be 'worth' more?
Whichever you choose it just goes to show that the object in question has very little to do with the price someone is willing to pay for something.
Tazmaniandevil
Established Member
Ah but there comes a time when art becomes more than just an object. If someone paints a 5 o'clock shadow on the mona lisa will it be worth less? OK bad example, the added paint could be removed. How about if someone decides to crop it to a head & shoulders shot to fit it in a particular frame?
I think there is less popularity in wooden art, and therefore less value driven by mass appeal. If someone is truly gifted and produces perfect work almost every time, then why shouldn't they charge accordingly?
Do you buy Uncle Frank a bottle of rum for doing your wedding photos, or do you hire a professional?
I think there is less popularity in wooden art, and therefore less value driven by mass appeal. If someone is truly gifted and produces perfect work almost every time, then why shouldn't they charge accordingly?
Do you buy Uncle Frank a bottle of rum for doing your wedding photos, or do you hire a professional?
graduate_owner
Established Member
AT least you can see the skill that has gone into creating some of these pieces of turned work - or any other furniture for that matter. Whether people are willing to pay for that skill is another matter. But when it comes to 'art' then I sometimes think the artist is having a laugh. It's as though they have made their name, and can now cobble up any old thing by trading on that name, and expect it to sell. I'm sure we have all seen the sort of thing I mean. The same applies to sculptures, things like a pitch black room with music playing, or a pile of old tyres. And people rave about it
Then there's music. The BBC showed a series about folk music a fer months back, and I heard Bob Dylan singing Maggie's Farm on stage - what a row. He was just shouting, no tune at all, just monotonic shouting into the microphone. But he was famous by then so he could get away with it. And John Cage's 1952 work 4'33" - 4 minuter 33 seconds of silence in 3 movements.
I think it's all very well making and really earning and deserving a name for yourself, but a reputation should be valued and cherished, not traded on to get money for tat.
That's my opinion anyway.
K
Then there's music. The BBC showed a series about folk music a fer months back, and I heard Bob Dylan singing Maggie's Farm on stage - what a row. He was just shouting, no tune at all, just monotonic shouting into the microphone. But he was famous by then so he could get away with it. And John Cage's 1952 work 4'33" - 4 minuter 33 seconds of silence in 3 movements.
I think it's all very well making and really earning and deserving a name for yourself, but a reputation should be valued and cherished, not traded on to get money for tat.
That's my opinion anyway.
K
andersonec
Established Member
Bodrighy":27e6vczj said:
A couple of us have been selling at a monthly craft fair in Lincoln and out of the thousands of 'Joe public' who have stopped and looked over the past months there has been none who classed our work as 'Knocked up in a shed'
Charging a high price does not make it more appreciated, charging a 'fair' price makes it more affordable to those who can least afford it but love it just as much as those who have money to burn (who sometimes buy things as an ego boost) in fact I would rather some of my boxes go to people who will treasure it because they can only just afford it. The lady who this sewing box was made for cried when she saw it and that was worth a fortune to me.
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Bodrighy
Established Member
A fair price isn't necessarily a high price and no-one has suggested selling for a high price for the sake of it. However, selling something that cost £20 for materials, took three hours to make and another couple of pounds for the consumables not to mention money for the pitch, fuel etc for a few pounds is not selling for a fair price and that is what is meant by selling things cheaply and is seen all too often. I don't know what you charge for the items you have shown but if they are being sold for less than they are worth in materials and time spent making them, not to mention the obvious skill level needed to create them then IMHO you are underselling and not doing those of us trying to make a living any favours. I sell my work at markets, galleries and also to commission and my experience is that the people who buy quality work expect to pay quality prices not knock down prices. I agree that having someone buy something because they appreciate it is a great feeling and perhaps the fact that I have people returning for new commissions or referring friends to me is a sign that I am doing something right. I cannot afford to play at this and sell for the sake of making some pocket money I have to make a living and seeing some of the things that are being sold and the prices that they are being sold for can get very annoying.
Pete
Pete
finneyb
Established Member
There are two ways of pricing a piece ' labour plus materials plus profit ' and 'what the market will bear' . Art is based on the later. If someone is prepared to pay the price it sells; there is no logic to it - which is probably why I don't buy art.
Have a look at AAW's (American Association of Woodturners) http://www.woodturner.org/resources/bb/a_g_gallery/ click on the piece to get the price. AAW have for a few years now been pushing Wood Art. Some of it I like especially for the technical skill involved eg http://weidmanwoodsculpture.com/gallery/ this man blows my mind his animals are turned on a multi-axis I just don't see how he can visualise the end product before he mounts the wood on the lathe.
Brian
Have a look at AAW's (American Association of Woodturners) http://www.woodturner.org/resources/bb/a_g_gallery/ click on the piece to get the price. AAW have for a few years now been pushing Wood Art. Some of it I like especially for the technical skill involved eg http://weidmanwoodsculpture.com/gallery/ this man blows my mind his animals are turned on a multi-axis I just don't see how he can visualise the end product before he mounts the wood on the lathe.
Brian
