dovetail saw

[Rknott2007]

I may be opening a can of worms here, but after years of using a japanesse saw to cut dovetails, i've decided to treat myself to a nice western style dovetail saw, but which one i want a nice classy saw, i'm opting towards a lie0nielsen, but i would like a dark handle, so i'd opt for the cocobolo handle, ordering direct from lie-nielsen, I'd appreciate nay comments or suggestions on any other makes, i've read an article in goodwood, by andy king and phily, so i'm also considering a wenzloff. I know i may seem fussy, but i would love a dark handle.

 

[woodbloke]

RK - I have the LN dovetail saw like many others here and very pleasant it is too but I've also sampled the untold delights of Philly's saw chest in which reside an Adria and one of the LN dovetail saws similar to a large Gents saw (handle in line with the saw back). I think I have also had very limited use of a Wenzloff saw which is again a joy to use. End of the day you pays your money etc etc....not a lot to choose between them really - Rob

 

[wizer]

I'm interested in a Wenzloff. There is also Adria.

 

[whybob71]

I don't have a LN dovetail saw, but I frequently use my Adria for cutting DT. I belive it's a great saw, quite aggressive. Its only "defect" is that the cut it's a bit hard to start.

 

[Chris Knight]

Don't forget the Gramercy saw. It's had nice write-ups.

 

[bugbear]

Don't forget the Gramercy saw. It's had nice write-ups.

Could be cheap too, in kit form.

BugBear

 

[Anonymous]

Rknott2007, I have got the LN dovetail saw, which I personally find perfectly adequate. I must admit that I have tried neither the Gramercy, nor the Wenzloff so I can't comment on their performance.

I have held them in my hands recently though and the Gramercy was wonderfully light and perfectly balanced. I would buy that one as my next saw, if I ever "need" another one.

cheers,

Vincent

P.S. Nice punctuation in your post.

 

[Harbo]

I have a couple of Wenzloff's which Mike made with American Black Walnut handles ...... lovely!!!

Almost too nice to use?

Rod

 

[dchenard]

Here's a worm coming out of the can

What kind of Japanese saw are you using? That makes a difference...

Read this blog entry from Konrad Sauer's site:

http://www.sauerandsteiner.com/news/200 ... rives.html

(you can check his planes too :wink

While you can't get a Yataiki saw anymore (I've been blessed to be one of his last customers), there are other good makers out there, Mitsukawa being reputed as one of the best.

As a former owner of the LN saw, I can't see myself ever switching to a western saw for cutting dovetails. However I haven't tried the Adria, Wenzloff, or Gramercy, so I can't comment on those. I have a friend who owns the Gramercy, he offered to lend it to me, when I have the time I'll do just that.

Since you are already using Japanese saws, I would suggest this one:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... at=1,42884

That saw made me sell my LN... Not as good as the Yataiki, but at one-sixth the price it's a steal...

DC-C

 

[DarrenW]

For what its worth Good Woodworking magazine trailed 4 DT saws with the following results.

5.0 Star = Wenzloff http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/saws/index.html
4.5 Star = Thomas-flin Pax range http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/acatalog/Pax_Range.html
4.5 Star = LN http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=DS
4.0 Star = Adria http://www.adriatools.com/handsaw/dovetail_saw.html

I think it was Andy King who tested them. Maybe he can comment further.

Cheers

Darren

PS: I have a Pax DT saw on order. Will let you know what its like when it arrives. Just gotta learn how to sharpen it now :?

 

[Anonymous]

I love my LN and the new variable tooth pirch one should start the cut a bit better.

no brainer :wink:

 

[Philly]

Darren
Andy did indeed do the reviewing part with input from yours truly for a second opinion (especially as I own a few saws :lol: )
All the saws tested were excellent and you certainly wouldn't be disappointed with any of them - the differences between them were in the grip size and angle and the number of teeth. In use they all cut and tracked really well.
My choice??
Well, the Wenzloff was just beautiful. Best made of the bunch and really delicate to hold - you felt like royalty with this one.
The L-N saw I have owned for a number of years - an excellent saw (once you learn the knack for starting the cut). I must say I was slightly disappointed with the filing job on the teeth - my older saw had a real "hand filed" feel. You could feel the burr on each tooth. The new saw seemed to have a more "manufactured" look. Still, it cut real nicely.
The Adria is a sweet little saw - very similar to the L-N but with a different feel (and drop) tot he handle. Well worth a look.
The Pax was a nice saw - it seemed huge compared to the others tested. It cut well and had a lovely Elm handle.

So it all came down to personal choice. Or the ability to buy more than one :lol:

Hope this helps
Philly

 

[dunbarhamlin]

So it all came down to personal choice. Or the ability to buy more than one :lol:

Dammit, Philly :roll:
Here I was, seriously contemplating rationalising my tool cupboard and then you go and say things like that. I'd nearly resolved to get rid of my LN because it feels clunky compared to MikeW's and Joel's (not a starting problem, just feels crude) but now, though I still probably will ditch it, I'll think about it some more first.
:sigh:
Thanks
Steve :lol:

 

[Philly]

Sorry, Steve. I try to be helpful but, you know............. :roll: :lol:
Philly

 

[dunbarhamlin]

No problem. You just revived a glimmer of collectoritis.
They're all good saws (and after the first jointing, the original sharpening job, be it hand filed or not is just a happy memory)
By way of explanation re disfavouring the LN, I just find the daintier handles of my Wenzloff and Gramercy better suited to my style (I use the former as my go to saw, the latter for titchy stuff).
I've got larger than average paws, but find the slight handles encourage a light handed technique, which has improved my accuaracy and control.
(The Kenyon horns do pinch if I grasp the saw, but as this is a DT/small joinery saw, there's no need to power through and it again encourages a very open, straight grip with pointed index, wrist and elbow in line)
Cheers
Steve

 

[DarrenW]

Hi All

As promised the Pax DT saw arrived yesterday, so some pics for you.

First off I am no saw expert, so mainly some pics for stats and a few comparisons to what I normally use (Japanese Ikedame saw from Axminster).

Its the 10inch and 20tpi. I think they also do an 8inch and 12inch version, although it seems that the 10inch and 8inch are the same price. So for me it was a buy 8inch and get 2 inches free :wink:

Handle is elm.

So... how its delivered

.... and a side by side with my Ikedame

...... comparison of teeth (Pax left and Ikedame right)

.... Some test cuts (Pax left and Ikedame right)

Japanese saw gives a narrower cut, but not surprising since its a pull saw and can use thinner steel. Maybe need to reduce the set of the Pax (?)

..... comparison of cut edge (Pax left and Ikedame right)

Japanese saw seems to leave a slightly finer finish, but thats probably down to technique..... I've used the Jap saw alot and the Pax for about 6 cuts.

.... Some more test cuts with PAX

Did notice that the PAX does leave some 'curls' of wood at the back of the cut (the cuts by the jap saw on the left are clean) .....

Again, not sure if this is technique, what western saws do, or too much set?

My main reason for trying a western saw is that I don't find the sawing with the Jap saw that comfortable. I find using the Pax much more comfortable... the handle is nicely shaped and fits the palm will. Also the angle of the wrist (straight) seems more natural than for the straight handle of the Jap saw.

So there you go.

Cheers

Darren

 

[woodbloke]

The Pax looks quite a nice saw, from looking at the pics you may have a tad too much set on the teeth, easily remedied with just a couple of stokes down each side with a fine small slip stone...a little diamond stone would be ideal for this. I used to have one of those small Jap saws when I was in 'far eastern' :wink: mode and I found it quite good. I've since changed for a standard Gents saw from Axminster - Rob

 

[Harbo]

Yes as Woodbloke says too much set. I bought its cheaper sibling a Crown which had far too much set.
Much improved by removing some and fitting a new handle:-

Here's a couple of Wenzloffs for comparison :-

Sorry have not got any photos of any cuts - will try to do some.

Rod

 

[Harbo]

Here's some photos I took today of some saw cuts:

]

A - Crown (reduced set) 24TPI
B - Sunchild (Japanese)
C - Wenzloff D/T Rip 15TPI
D - Wenzloff Carcass 14 TPI
E - Old Ross & Alexander D/T sharpened by myself 16TPI

The finest cut is with the old refurbished Ross!

Rod