Does this look like pine to you?

[rob.]

I know the photos arnt great, sorry, the lighting outside is very poor.
This is the top of this antique Mahogany chest of drawers restoring-an-antique-chest-of-drawers-advice-welcomed-t98737.html , I'm stripping off the polish and found what looks like a pine top , any ideas?
It looks like three planks glued together.

 

[deema]

Yep, possibly Douglas fir IMO.

 

[rob.]

That's not good, is it possible to get a sheet of veneer 24'' by 48''? The Mahogany veneer I've seen so far is no where near 24'' wide.

 

[custard]

Looks like pine to me (although identifying timber from a photo is little more than a guessing game).

That should come as no surprise, masses of antique furniture is just cheaper wood tarted up to look like expensive wood.

 

[woodbrains]

That's not good, is it possible to get a sheet of veneer 24'' by 48''? The Mahogany veneer I've seen so far is no where near 24'' wide.

Hello,

Joining 2 or 3 leaves together to get the width you need is the usual way.

Is it possible the piece was once veneered and been stripped off at some point. Much antique furniture was made of pine or even oak and then veneered. There was a fad of stripping the veneer off badly worn antiques to the ground material and just using the like that, perhaps yours suffered that fate, at least in part.

Mike.

 

[rob.]

Ive only ever seen this when something was ontop, like a chest on chest or a bookcase. It could well have been veneered in the past, I'll have a closer look at that tomorrow. Its puzzling because the sides are solid mahogany.
I guess my options are stain it then refinish it as is, veneer it although I'm no expert on veneer and joining two pieces together and making it look like one piece will be a total learning curve for me , or buy a reclaimed antique table top and cutting it down to fit. I have to admit the first option is looking like the path of least resistance.

I'll get some more photos tomorrow when the light is better.

 

[custard]

That's not good, is it possible to get a sheet of veneer 24'' by 48''? The Mahogany veneer I've seen so far is no where near 24'' wide.

You'll struggle to find a 24" wide leaf, but that's not a problem, just joint a book matched pair of narrower leaves to make your wider piece. Dead easy with hide glue (just overlap and trim), trickier with PVA or UF glue where you have to joint it before laying, but if you have a bit of a practise before the real thing it's not too difficult.

The thing that's hardest about pre-jointing veneer is trusting the process, at first it all looks so implausible, but it really does work! You sandwich the two jointing edges (either together or separately) between two sheets of 15mm or 18mm MDF that have fairly straight edges (the idea is to never touch the MDF with the plane, so it's not like a shooting board, although some veneer workers make up massive 8' long shooting boards for veneering). You position the veneer so it's poking out by just one or two mill, with the edges of the MDF exactly aligned, you cramp it all down to your (reasonably flat) bench top (works best if you have a removable tool well so you can cramp from the rear). Then you run your plane on its side with a finely set iron along the veneer edge. Personally I aim to produce a sprung joint even with 0.6mm commercial veneer, so I'll make stopped shavings until the plane no longer cuts, then I'll make one or two through shavings. After that you tape up the joint on the glue side, open the joint like a hinge and run in a minute bead of PVA, then close up the joint and tape the face side. After half an hour you remove the tape on the glue side and lay the veneer. Do a small practise piece first and you'll soon be churning 'em out like a champ!

Good luck!

 

[rob.]

That's not good, is it possible to get a sheet of veneer 24'' by 48''? The Mahogany veneer I've seen so far is no where near 24'' wide.

You'll struggle to find a 24" wide leaf, but that's not a problem, just joint a book matched pair of narrower leaves to make your wider piece. Dead easy with hide glue (just overlap and trim), trickier with PVA or UF glue where you have to joint it before laying, but if you have a bit of a practise before the real thing it's not too difficult.

The thing that's hardest about pre-jointing veneer is trusting the process, at first it all looks so implausible, but it really does work! You sandwich the two jointing edges (either together or separately) between two sheets of 15mm or 18mm MDF that have fairly straight edges. You position the veneer so it's poking out by just one or two mill, with the edges of the MDF exactly aligned, you cramp it all down to your (reasonably flat) bench top (works best if you have a removable tool well so you can cramp from the rear). Then you run your plane on its side with a finely set iron along the veneer edge. Personally I aim to produce a sprung joint even with 0.6mm commercial veneer, so I'll make stopped shavings until the plane no longer cuts, then I'll make one or two through shavings. After that you tape up the joint on the glue side, open the joint like a hinge and run in a minute bead of PVA, then close up the joint and tape the face side. After half an hour you remove the tape on the glue side and lay the veneer. Do a small practise piece first and you'll soon be churning 'em out like a champ!

Good luck!

Thanks buddy, sounds easy when you put it like that, I'd never have guessed that's how its done..

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

If the rest is solid mahogany, then you will be right about it missing an upper case.

Veneering is not too hard, joining is not difficult, either. Hammer veneering with hide glue is the way to go. There are some online videos that explain. It is worth a try, staining pine to look like mahogany will always look odd.

Mike.

 

[custard]

I just looked at the second of your photos in more detail, the top's pine but the lipping is mahogany. That gives you a teeny problem in that running a surface veneer right to the edge makes it vulnerable to chipping in the future. Is the lipping wide enough so that you can lay a replacement veneer with the lipping removed, then re-attach the lipping so that it's above/proud of the veneer by a hair, then flush it back down to the veneer? If you can do that then the vulnerable edge of the veneer is protected.

 

[rob.]

I just looked at the second of your photos in more detail, the top's pine but the lipping is mahogany. That gives you a teeny problem in that running a surface veneer right to the edge makes it vulnerable to chipping in the future. Is the lipping wide enough so that you can lay a replacement veneer with the lipping removed, then re-attach the lipping so that it's above/proud of the veneer by a hair, then flush it back down to the veneer? If you can do that then the vulnerable edge of the veneer is protected.

Its a moulding that goes around the top of the chest, it can be removed and slightly raised up to protect the veneer.
Ive watched a few videos and I am reading up on veneering, I'm thinking a four way book match with some nice cross banding , Lol. Best find my rubber ring if I'm going to throw myself in at the deep end...

 

[Jacob]

Could be horse chestnut. It comes in wide boards, fairly featureless, softish and easy to work, was used a lot in cheap furniture such as this where it'd be concealed by finish.
Or yellow pine, similar description.

 

[deema]

Don't forget to add a backing or balancing veneer on the underside of the top.

In your shoes I think I would be tempted to remove the existing top and replace it with a man made substrate and veneer on top of that. I would reuse the lipings which are probably animal glued on and will come off with a little heat. Issues of balancing veneers disappear and it will be a lot more stable and less likely to cause issues going forward with cracking / delamination

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Paul at Readveneers.co.uk will be able to sort you a mahogany veneer to what ever size you need and a balancer too. Lovely bloke to deal with

 

[n0legs]

You'll struggle to find a 24" wide leaf, but that's not a problem, just joint a book matched pair of narrower leaves to make your wider piece. Dead easy with hide glue (just overlap and trim), trickier with PVA or UF glue where you have to joint it before laying, but if you have a bit of a practise before the real thing it's not too difficult.

The thing that's hardest about pre-jointing veneer is trusting the process, at first it all looks so implausible, but it really does work! You sandwich the two jointing edges (either together or separately) between two sheets of 15mm or 18mm MDF that have fairly straight edges (the idea is to never touch the MDF with the plane, so it's not like a shooting board, although some veneer workers make up massive 8' long shooting boards for veneering). You position the veneer so it's poking out by just one or two mill, with the edges of the MDF exactly aligned, you cramp it all down to your (reasonably flat) bench top (works best if you have a removable tool well so you can cramp from the rear). Then you run your plane on its side with a finely set iron along the veneer edge. Personally I aim to produce a sprung joint even with 0.6mm commercial veneer, so I'll make stopped shavings until the plane no longer cuts, then I'll make one or two through shavings. After that you tape up the joint on the glue side, open the joint like a hinge and run in a minute bead of PVA, then close up the joint and tape the face side. After half an hour you remove the tape on the glue side and lay the veneer. Do a small practise piece first and you'll soon be churning 'em out like a champ!

Good luck!

Ain't it about time you did us an "idiots guide to veneering" Mr C? :-"
We've seen your work, we know you know what you're on about :wink:

 

[rob.]

Are you sure I need a balancer? The top is a good inch or more thick.

 

[deema]

IMO on man made materials no, on solid anything yes, the thicker and wider it is, the more you need it.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello

It won't need a balancing veneer, the top is already restrained. It is different if the panel was just a separate board. Even then, there are ways of veneering one side only. There are tricks!

Incidentally, solid or manufactured board both need balancing veneers. Both will cup just the same when veneered on on side only (Unless you know the trick)

Mike.

 

[n0legs]

(Unless you know the trick)

Mike.

Pray tell good sir

 

[ED65]

Counter-veneer may or may not be necessary depending on the grain of the veneer, the glue used and the orientation of the veneer relative to the substrate.

It's certainly needed sometimes, because we have plenty of examples where it wasn't done and stuff bowed. But equally there are many examples of historical pieces with veneer on one face only, although because of the very different nature of old veneer compared to modern stuff I'm not certain we can draw useful conclusions from that.