Diamond stones, which to get?

[scooby]

I want to get a coarse or extra coarse diamond for reshaping my chisels and plane irons.

Don't want to pay loads but not so cheap that it is useless. I'm after the metal plate type (never used diamond stones before so please excuse my ignorance on terminology) . size 8"x3".

The DMT range is out of my budget at 70-80 quid. The only other one I've seen is a Faithfull coarse stone for around £20. Think the grit is 180 (which sounds very coarse).

Anyone got any opinions, recommendations? I think my preferable budget is around £40. As stated it's for reforming the primary bevel (with the use of a honing guide) and removing nicks.

Cheers
Jon

 

[Wiley Horne]

I have had a few Norton diamond stones, and without exception they have lost their cutting power way faster than I would have expected. In fact, I am using three old ones that have gone completely bald as substrates for diamond paste, and they're great for this purpose.

I suspect I have been too heavy-handed with these diamond stones, and have just ploughed the diamond right out of the matrix. But this is a typical thing to do, and the US forums are full of testimony about fast wear on diamond stones. It may be that a light touch and use of some sort of lubricant would preserve the life of the stone. If you buy a diamond stone, I would keep this in mind.

Nowadays, I hollow grind most bench plane blades and chisels.

Wiley

 

[devonwoody]

I purchased one of those cheap 3 piece sets at a show plus the bottle that was three years ago,£15 the lot, and I scratched my palm the other day with a chisel just after coming of the plate, and I can tell you it was sharp.

So I won't bother to upgrade to those expensive ones.

So I think it is as much to do with the quality of the chisel steel re sharpening.

 

[Alf]

Trouble with the cheaper ones is that, while they're coarse all right, they're also seldom flat. Not a huge issue for bevels, but a major problem if you want to use them for back flattening. If you want coarse diamonds on the cheap, try the paste. 45 micron is pretty good, but you can go coarser still if you like. I went to Eternal Tools, but Gidon also discovered Cromwell (Category: Abrasives > Finishing & Polishing > Pads, Stones & Compounds > Polishing & Lapping Products). Have a look in the archive for discussion on suitable substrates.

Cheers, Alf

 

[gidon]

Jon
I bought my first DMT stone from DM-tools for getting £100 - one of the Duosharp extra coarse / fine ones. Pricey but it get's used a lot. I was keen to complement it with the extra fine / coarse stone but couldn't bring myself to part with the cash! I bought one in the end from Amazon.com for $60(!!!) - my sister brought it back from the states for me. If you can get one for this price (just checked - Amazon's price has gone up to $69) I would go for it - they are guaranteed (pretty much) flat.
Otherwise the Eze-lap's get ok comments back - not meant to last as long as the DMT's (different diamonds) but cheaper:
http://www.itslondon.co.uk/pd_PRO86C_86 ... Coarse.htm
By the way even on a DMT extra coarse - it's still pretty slow reworking the primary bevel although it's what I use for that. You mention reshaping - that would take a long time. Maybe try your belt sander upside down a la Tage Frid?
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Scooby,

The cheaper diamond stones, apart from not always being flat as Alf says, is that they use a different type of diamond, opting for the cheaper polycrystaline diamonds that fracture and wear away quickly.
The better stones us a monocrystaline type that don't fracture.
The result is that they have a longer life, and will keep a good cutting performance. All stones do wear though, and in the case of diamond types, they have a much coarser cut when brand new before settling in to its normal cutting performance.
I'm a fan of diamond stones. I've used (and own) a couple of DMT perforated ones, but I find that narrow chisels especially can dig.
I always used to fall back to my old Norton India stones, but now I always use a Trend double sided continuous plate one. It does everything I need for pretty well every job, it's only if I work some really hard or tricky timber that I'll maybe consider moving up to a really fine Jap type.
I use the Trend stone at shows when I'm demoing for the magazine, and it was quite pleasing last year at Axminster when I had Rob Lee commenting on the fine shavings I was taking from some 25mm rock maple with both his and a Lie Nielsen apron plane, asking what stones I was using.
Even better was when I had a couple of other stand holders asking if David Charlsworth had sharpened them! (To prove it was me, I quickly dragged the iron along a piece of steel to blunt it, then re-sharpened :lol: )
I've used the Trend stone now for about 4 years, both at home and at work, and it still cuts perfectly.
Personally though, I wouldn't consider a honing stone of any coarseness to dress a primary bevel, it's far too time consuming, i'll always go back to a grinder of some description for this, but I will take out a nick on a honing bevel using a stone.
To be honest, I reckon at £20, you are likely to be disappointed in the long run.

Cheers,
Andy

 

[Colin C]

I have used Eze-lap diamond stones for years ( will my first one I bought about 6-7 yaers ago and I am still using it )
I get mine from Tilgear, I have not seen them any cheaper . They are the flat plate type with diamonds all over.
Ps I think they are doing them on sale at the moment \/

 

[Chris Knight]

Jon,

For creating primary bevels and getting chips out etc. You should really use the coarsest, quickest cutting thing you can find. A kerbstone will do. It is simply a waste of money to use a diamond stone IMHO.

Where you can legitimately go to town is on the secondary bevel and/or cutting edge (OK, some people make their primary bevel the cutting edge but they are nuts) since this is what is in contact with and/or cuts the wood.

 

[Anonymous]

Jon

wouldn't bother with the real cheap stones.

I got a duel sided stone (course and fine) for about £60 and it is a Trend item, so good quality. A bit over the budget but it is double sided.

I also have a DMT duostone which is my most used abrasive and, in my opinion the best thing to buy for course and medium cutting

 

[Colin C]

Where you can legitimately go to town is on the secondary bevel and/or cutting edge (OK, some people make their primary bevel the cutting edge but they are nuts) since this is what is in contact with and/or cuts the wood.

And what do you mean by this ( people that use one bevel are nuts ), no one has called me nuts before :shock: :-k :^o
( now leaving with head bowed :wink: )

 

[Chris Knight]

Colin,

I reckon anyone who chooses to sharpen across a whole bevel just to restore an edge must be a masochist and in my book masochists are nuts! The secondary bevel is a great time saver and time is money as they say and choosing not to save money or time when it's on offer also seems nuts to me.

 

[Taffy Turner]

I have also got the Trend dual sided diamond stone, and find it excellent.

I bought mine at Yandles - it was half price. The guy that makes them for Trend has a stall there where he sells off the stones that didn't pass the quality control. You have to have a good look at them, as some are worse than others. Mine has about 3mm on one end of the coarse stone with no diamond. Prcatically, it is a visual defect only, and I can live with it for the cost saving.

Worth bearing in mind if you are in striking distance of Yandles.

Regards

Gary

 

[Alf]

Now c'mon, Chris, tell us what you really think... :wink: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[RogerS]

A kerbstone will do.

Visions of Chris, kneeling outside on the pavement, getting odd looks from passers-by until chappie from the council comes along and taps him on the shoulder

 

[Chris Knight]

I'd probably get done by a policeman first for carrying an offensive weapon!

 

[Colin C]

I use one bevel because being a restorer ( furniture ), I have found that you never know where some people will put nails and screws :roll: :shock: .
I found that will one bevel, if I do hit metal ( which has happened to many times ) I get less damage to my irons, than I do with to.
This way I am grinding them less and for the small extra amount of time used for sharping I can live with

 

[beej]

I ended up getting a 120 grit Shapton ceramic stone for that kind of less-than-a-grinder type of work and absolutely love it. A tad expensive but they last forever by all accounts.
Curiously (because I have trouble seeing how it can be) it doesn't leave huge scratches like a carborundum stone of equivalent grit. They say it's to do with the 'sharpness' of the grit rather than its size but whatever it is, it works. And you can't cook an edge if you're a fraction slow lifting off.
cheers
beej

 

[Chris Knight]

Colin,
Thanks. Perhaps I was being just a leeetle bit sweeping in my generalisations!

 

[bugbear]

I want to get a coarse or extra coarse diamond for reshaping my chisels and plane irons.
...

Anyone got any opinions, recommendations? I think my preferable budget is around £40. As stated it's for reforming the primary bevel (with the use of a honing guide) and removing nicks.

Yep. AlZi sander belt on glass. Around 50-80 grit. And a hand vise for plane blades.

http://www.abrasivesplus.com/epages/abr ... View/11283

http://www.geocities.com/plybench/tour.html#hand_vise

BugBear (who finally wrote up the idea)

 

[Colin C]

Hi Chris, not a problem as on hole I agree with you but I have now been using one bevel for 22 years now and old habits die hard