Design & Technology in schools

[Keith 66]

I am a workshop technician in a secondary school, i work with some great people & most of the kids are great too.
The other day we had an exibition of final projects that the year 11 kids had made, great event & really positive.
But im finding myself getting very disillusioned with it.
Our school is a newly built academy ( built by a major service provider) We have poorly designed workshops with mostly dreadful quality equipment unless it was left over from the old school
Our funding has been slashed yet again to the point ii am often reduced to raiding skips for materials.
Making time is far less than it was & in most cases the kids cant gain the skills to make good quality products.
The other day teacher asked me about composites & could i get some samples, now i have done more than a fair bit of this in a previous life & said i would get some samples," Oh we only need some carbon fibre I can only teach them about what the exam requires".
Now i have a huge amount of respect for a great teacher but i was a bit disheartened at this.
When i look back at what we learnt & made at school in the 1970's i am saddened at the state of practical subjects today.
It often seems as if technicians knowledge & skills are regarded as worthless.
Be interested to hear others views on the state of the subject

 

[curtisrider]

I finished being a Design and Technology teacher in July this year partly for those reasons. The subject has deteriorated, less and less people see the value in it and it's going to rapidly die out if nothing happens. We had massively out of date equipment and lots of it was removed as it did not meet modern H&S requirements, some was replaced but as you may well know getting machines suitable for a school environment is expensive. Although 3D printers and laser cutters are fantastic additions to the learning environment they also distract from actual practical ability and encourage a lazy side in the students! The reliance on laser cutters (and technicians!) to do the work for them at GCSE is sad, most prefer the easy route!

 

[lurker]

Can't help but think that H&S was just being used as an excuse.

Yet again! :x

 

[heimlaga]

I support you 100%

In my oppinion kids should be taught to make useful stuff from simple raw materials using a very basic set of good quality tools and machines.
During my time in the Finnish equivalent of secondary school (age 13-15) in the mid 90-ies we came pretty close to that.
-Working ordinary using planer and thicknesser and sliding table saw and lathe and drill press and band saw and router and hand tools.
-Working iron with forge and anvil and welder and angle grinder and drill press and sheet mertal bending brake and roller. Actually they had a metal lathe too which those who were considered ready for it were allowed to use at the end of 9th grade.
The teacher was unfortunately not the metal craftsman he should have been but he was good at woodwork and not too bad at teaching.
Tools and mashines were very good quality though some fell a wee bit short on maintainance.

In my oppinion the most important part of workshop classes is to teach a "can do" mentality to make people realize that there is neither any magic nor any need for gadgets when you want to make stuff. Just learn how to do and then do it.
The society as a whole needs more of that attitude.

 

[curtisrider]

Can't help but think that H&S was just being used as an excuse.

Yet again! :x

Don't worry it didn't go to waste, they were going to scrap it all so I offered to take it away when I left. I now have some very nice machines which only needed a little fettling!

 

[woodpig]

A friend of mine has been a D&T technician for many years. At one point the head of department was very knowledgable but sadly he left and successive heads (and the rest of the staff) don't seem to know how to use tools as well as the technicians. Things are so bad now there are rumours that they will be getting rid of most of their metal turning lathes as the staff don't know how to use them. Getting a degree in media studies then deciding to get a job in teaching doesn't really help matters. Especially when they decide D&T might be a good choice because they used a screwdriver once...

 

[Tortion-Stephen]

So what you're saying is I need to get to Devon with a big van?

*vulture mode off* No I'm kidding, I would really rather the tools be used by generations of new wannabe craftsmen, engineers and machinists.. We are painfully short of them, and don't seem to be taking any steps to solve it. It's very sad, and is definitely a hugely regressive step.

As mentioned above and in other threads H&S is often unfairly blamed when apathy, antipathy and lack of engagement is the real cause.

 

[Keith 66]

The new single subject D&T GCSE will be taught from next september, thank god food technology has been taken out of it, quite why it was ever thought a sandwhich or meal had to be designed i have no idea.
Trouble is now it would seem all the old standard projects that allowed yr 7 & 8's to build some basic tool skills are to be binned.
Instead marks will be given for ideas, a kid who has a good idea & builds it from cardboard & duct tape will get better marks than one who has a less ambitious idea but builds a first class product. To me that is just crazy.
And now we are going to have to add electronics, systems control & coding? give me strength! No wonder there is a shortage of D&T teachers and technicians.
I have been involved with stripping out 3 school workshops in the past 5 years (cant beat em join em kind of thing) & the quality of tools & machinery that got binned was a scandal. They replace it all with chinese tat & think its wonderful!
On the other hand we have an after school club building stringed instruments out of junk, Diddly bo's 3 string guitars that sort of thing, couple of the lads said last week, "This club is the best part about this school" I was right chuffed at that. Few budding rock stars maybe!

 

[skipdiver]

I bought my pillar drill from a D&T teacher, no doubt he had "rescued" it from the skip. When i went to look at it, he didn't even know how it worked and i had to show him. He also had a very nice looking metalwork lathe in his garage that was being used to lean bikes against. I bet it ended up on ebay, the same as my drill.

 

[Stanleymonkey]

It's marginalized at primary school too. New curriculum has set impossibly high demands - can't see them being achieved though.

Such a push on reading, writing, grammar for writing, grammar in the writing, and maths to beat the Asian schools. Six years olds have to know their subordinating conjunctions. Fronted adverbials and the subjunctive mood for the older kids. If they can't perform in tests - the school is in huge trouble. Art, DT, Music all get massively sidelined.

Very sad. DT is so important. Puts a lot of skills in place and makes children understand measuring, parallel and perpendicular better than any maths lessons. Social skills from getting a bit of help from your mate and getting him to sand something straight while you fix a wobbly wheel for him are invaluable.

 

[woodfarmer]

I find threads like this very depressing.....

 

[AJB Temple]

There are two sides I suppose. For example, though some people think coding is a waste of time, actually it isn't. We are entering an age where computers and machines will do away with a lot of jobs. Coding skills give an insight into how computers can be controlled and used effectively. We teach most of our staff basic SQL skills now so that they can extract from databases. Many of our finance staff find it useful to build up coding skills. Schools do need to look ahead for what skills will be when our children are adults - they must consider a 20 year time horizon and the world is changing fast.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Maybe I'm all out of step with modern times, but I've always thought of the education system as analogous to building a house - you put decent foundations in first, then build good sound walls and roof before you bother about the decorations and embellishments.

Thus, school should be about getting the basics sorted - building confidence with reading, writing and basic maths, then opening eyes to the wider world through subjects like history, geography, languages, literature, sciences, music and so on. All the useful stuff that provides a good foundation to build a life on, and open the mind. As part of that, some practical skills are a definite plus - we'll all have to do some at various times of our lives, even if it's only mending a tap-washer or checking the oil level in the car. Some basic familiarity and confidence with simple tools and how to use them seems just as useful as how to code, even today.

I've had no connection with education since I finished mine, but from time to time I do talk to youngsters. I don't see any lack of intelligence or willingness to learn, but I do wonder what they're being fed by way of 'education'. There's been a lot in the media about how the education system has been hollowed out and devalued over a period of two or three decades, and from my observation I rather think there may be rather a lot of truth in that. I've no idea whether recent changes will gradually improve matters, but I'd like to think so. I do have a lot of sympathy with anybody working in education because they want to open youngsters' minds and give them a good start in life, but I suspect any such ambition is beaten out of people by 'the system' rather quickly. I do hope that changes. For all our sakes.

 

[finneyb]

Just to add a new angle to this thread. The difference between education and training - education is gaining an understanding of the principles - training is gaining the skills to do the specific job. Both are important, but schools as I see it provide education, or should do.

So perhaps its right that skills teaching is restricted in school

Brian

 

[Keith 66]

Restricting skills training in schools assumes that all kids are going to be academic & go to uni. A lot are more practically inclined & need a basic grounding in practical skills.
I have worked until a few years ago in a sixth form college engineering department & you have no idea how soul destroying it is to get lads starting A level or whatever it is now courses who have never held a hacksaw or file in their lives. 90% had no idea whatsoever & had no idea how to read or draw the most basic working drawing. Christ we were doing that in the third year (yr 9 in todays speak).
A prime example of the sad attitude of some lecturers follows.
The new head of department decided that it would be good for the 2nd year engineering students to build a small oscilating steam engine, give them a bit of experiemnce on the lathe. Now i had set these machines up so they were accurate & clean. I noticed the cross slide kept going slack with huge backlash & gibs loose. Then a crude cover appeared over the feed selecto so the feeds could not be engaged.
It turned out that the new HoD had done this as "It is not safe for them to use power feeds" " i slacked everything of so they could wind the handles easily" THe quality of the parts was dreadful with an awful finish & the lads were not inspired. Now bearing in mind turning was always done with at most 2 students & a technician instructing & watching like a hawk i found this frankly insulting.
The final straw was that he would not tell the students to clean up after themselves at the end of each session, "They are too busy its the technicians job" We couldnt keep up and so the machines were filthy & workshop full of rubbish. The basic discipline of how a good workshop should be run had gone out of the window. I heard of a job at a local school & went along for an interview, first thing they stick me in a practical lesson & assist the teacher with two special needs lads, it went well & i was impressed when at the end everyone without exception started clearing up without barely being asked.
After the interview as i was walking to my car i made the decision to hand my notice in at the old job & did so the next day. I was offered the new job a couple of days later! We are selling a lot of youngsters down the river.

 

[RogerS]

Just to add a new angle to this thread. The difference between education and training - education is gaining an understanding of the principles - training is gaining the skills to do the specific job. Both are important, but schools as I see it provide education, or should do.

So perhaps its right that skills teaching is restricted in school

Brian

Training IS education. If you followed your line of reasoning, Brian, then there would be no art taught, no cooking, no music etc etc.

 

[bugbear]

Just to add a new angle to this thread. The difference between education and training - education is gaining an understanding of the principles - training is gaining the skills to do the specific job. Both are important, but schools as I see it provide education, or should do.

So perhaps its right that skills teaching is restricted in school

Brian

William Butler Yeats said it better IMHO;

Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.

BugBear

 

[RogerS]

Just to add a new angle to this thread. The difference between education and training - education is gaining an understanding of the principles - training is gaining the skills to do the specific job. Both are important, but schools as I see it provide education, or should do.

So perhaps its right that skills teaching is restricted in school

Brian

William Butler Yeats said it better IMHO;

Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.

BugBear

A good phrase but there is debate and little evidence to support the claim that it was by Yeats. Some say it is based on a quote by Plutarch.

 

[bugbear]

Just to add a new angle to this thread. The difference between education and training - education is gaining an understanding of the principles - training is gaining the skills to do the specific job. Both are important, but schools as I see it provide education, or should do.

So perhaps its right that skills teaching is restricted in school

Brian

William Butler Yeats said it better IMHO;

Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.

BugBear

A good phrase but there is debate and little evidence to support the claim that it was by Yeats. Some say it is based on a quote by Plutarch.

Well, as Tom Lehrer said, The idea's the important thing.

BugBear

 

[RogerS]

ccasion5:

I remember when I did metalwork 'O' level that we even had a forge !