??????? CONTINUATION OF THE 2011 CHALLENGE ???? ( POLL )

[Blister]

Hi Everyone

After recent event regarding this challenge I though sufficient cooling off time has passed ( For me ) to make my comments

I have sent a PM to George thanking him for his time as a Judge ( I will leave it at that without further comments )

I have also phoned Barry our other judge and asked if he is prepared to continue in the light of recent events and kindly he is prepared to do so :shock:
However I am not at ease with the current situation re Judging and have the following 3 things to suggest as a way of hopefully returning this challenge to its intended purpose

A Little reminder :-

I set up the challenge to encourage more entry's of work into the woodturning and lathes section as it was dwindling away ,

I think this is due to sometimes very harsh critique by some forum members ( Remember my poll about critique Yes / NO ? )

! offered to fund the awards and pay the postage and packing charges involved

And I wanted to keep things simple, a means of increasing the variety of work ,12 different projects sounds easy doesn't it
Remember if you win its more a prestige thing NO BIG MONEY PAY OUT , you get a small modest plaque kindly made by our forum member daven =D>

So where has it all gone wrong ? to end up as it is now ?

Simple / Fun / interesting / enjoyable / banter were all thing I had hoped would be a part of the challenge :mrgreen:

so far we seem to have had

Stress /gut feeling / disputes / word wars etc , I wont go on

Next onto Challenge monthly requirements and I will use for an example the Eggcup Challenge

As in the Cambridge Dictionary Online
Definition " a small container used to hold a boiled egg while you eat it " and we had lots of variety of styles

If however the rules stated

Must be 3' high
Must be 2' diameter
Must be hollowed to a depth of 1"
Must hold a egg that is 1 1/4 " around the waist , would this not lead to 20 ish egg cup entry almost identical with no entrant design input

does this not take away the individuals interpretation / Creativity side of things for each entrant ?
Would you like to eat egg and soldiers :lol: from a highly pierced or textured egg cup for hygienic reasons , I wouldn't , so was the judging correct to see the functional and hygiene side of the design

Anyway I have rambled long enough so on too the poll

ONLY VOTE if you are a entrant in this competition

Please vote to determine the future of the 2011 Challenge

 

[Wood spoiler]

I very much hope the competition will continue as I have derived so much enjoyment and inspiration and tried so many different things, with more to come. The comments from non participants proves our monthly challenge has value and is worthwhile.

By investing energy and effort into the competition it naturally gains an importance. If we were not putting the thought and effort into it then clearly strong feelings would not exist.

The benefits outweigh the frustrations and I hope the competition will benefit from the recent furore, settle down and move on. Judges will understand from all the comments that a single agenda to judge by is required.

 

[gus3049]

Hi Allan,

As the one who seems to have stirred all this up, I feel one last attempt to tell you what it is that upsets is in order. From some of your comments it seems clear that you basically agree with George. There are also clearly several of us who feel the judging has, as John has said, been moving the goalposts.

If we had known about the WAY it was going to be judged we could change our design accordingly and you would have had all those eggcups looking much the same and we wouldn't have been wasting our time. The 'art' side is what makes it interesting. If I wanted an easy clean and boring eggcup, I'd get a nice white ceramic one from M&S (or the French equivalent).

All these disagreements are inevitable to a degree. I think it was Gnu who said from the start that this would happen. Lets prove him partly wrong by carrying on with a new understanding of how it operates. If you state that practical aspects apply for a particular month - practical you will get but its the imagination that make all this interesting as well as the practical aspects of making wood round.

I'm all for carrying on now. No problems with Barry and Richard too - if he really wants to enter the Lion's den :shock:

 

[monkeybiter]

All this storm in a teacup is just teething problems, the comp. could still be running in ten years, no-one would expect it to be perfect first time. It will hopefully evolve into into a smoothly running tradition.

 

[gnu]

Although I have not taken part I have been very impressed with the numbers taking part and the enthusiasm and spirit and the fact that it has been going so long without any problems. I would change the judging and have a number of people like a jury who just vote for their top 3, 5 or 10 etc and just vote on gut instinct. I think it is too much for one judge to carry the burden. I see little problem with full timers taking part.. Sometimes it is the ideas and concept rather than the excecution that is interesting. It is about trying new things , new ideas rather than who is at the top of the league.I would definately keep it going but have a number of people judging like in The Eurovision Song Contest.
But yes keep it going as it takes us on a voyage of discovery.

 

[myturn]

Two things.

1. If people ask for clarification of the rules then what's the problem with that? Clarify them.


2. If the judges apply the criteria stated in the rules then there should be no problem either.


oh, a third thing....... :mrgreen:

it's all just a bit of fun anyway


And I voted to let the entrants decide the votes as I believe in democracy.
That should lead to a few more disputes too !

 

[gus3049]

By the way Allen, I don't think its true about 'all we've had is bother'. It may be what you remember but on the whole the atmosphere has been very friendly, with genuine congratulations going to the winners and lots of 'discussion'.

Remembering the bad will always be a problem and just reflects the rest of this wierd old existence.

 

[gus3049]

And I voted to let the entrants decide the votes as I believe in democracy.
That should lead to a few more disputes too !

No dispute. Why should there be when you are obviously just plain wrong???

Ah me backs hurtin'

 

[nev]

I very much hope the competition will continue as I have derived so much enjoyment and inspiration and tried so many different things, with more to come. The comments from non participants proves our monthly challenge has value and is worthwhile.

By investing energy and effort into the competition it naturally gains an importance. If we were not putting the thought and effort into it then clearly strong feelings would not exist.

The benefits outweigh the frustrations and I hope the competition will benefit from the recent furore, settle down and move on. Judges will understand from all the comments that a single agenda to judge by is required.

Ditto

it MUST continue, it is my inspiration, it is my reason to get up in the morning and venture out in all weathers to slave away tirelessly in harsh conditions, to attempt to improve oneself, be part of a community, and celebrate life....
and make a small wooden thing :mrgreen:

too much?

but seriously, i have great fun taking part (yes i should get out more!) and would not like to see it end, so please count me in.
and a big thanks to all that take part and volunteer their time to provide the forum and comp. =D>

 

[Jonzjob]

Gnu! If you expect me to sing as per the Europee-an Song Conputition then think again if you value yer lug 'oles!

Nev, do they ever let you out?

As for the comp, there will never be a solution that will work full time. Just remember that you can please all the people all of the time, some of the people some of the time, but you can never please some of the time all of the people some times #-o #-o #-o My brian cell 'urts! (homer)

Please keep it going Allen. You put a lot of work into it, along with the milk monitors, and I for one would miss it a lot!

 

[Silverbirch]

Would you like to eat egg and soldiers :lol: from a highly pierced or textured egg cup for hygienic reasons , I wouldn't , so was the judging correct to see the functional and hygiene side of the design

I`m not sure why" EZ Kleen" should apply particularly to eggcups. You could equally argue that some of the bowls in the first round weren`t suitable for eating your porridge out of! Can eggcups not be decorative rather than functional, just as bowls can be?
Does Cindy Drozda realise that her boxes aren`t much good because they could be easily knocked over?
I think a pierced eggcup would in fact be very practical, because all the runny stuff would drip through the holes onto the plate where it could be easily wiped up. :lol:
I would suggest that most hobby turners are attempting to make decorative items (however you define it) whether or not the said items have a practical purpose.
I think the challenges must continue. It`s been great fun and a bit of controversy helps to keep things interesting!
I think we all sincerely appreciate your efforts and motives in putting this challenge together.. I`m sure we`ve all benefitted. I know I have.=D>

Ian

 

[Jonzjob]

As a slight aside Ian. I have an egg cup, that I made years back, that is used most mornings by me. It is trad egg cup shape, easy clean, boring and egg sized. Quite often I get an egg that fits so well that I actually have to smash the shell out of it because it is such a good fit that when you try to get the empty shell out it breaks at the edge of the cup!

So when the challenge came up I thought of a design that you can just stick yer likkle finger between the spirals and just push the shell out. Perhapse I should have notified that at the time of the comp for egg cups and saved my self a lot of frustration? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[tpot]

I only joined the competition for the first time this month and think it is a great way for me try different things and have fun 'competing' against other forum members.

Personally I think there is nothing wrong with how the competition is run in its current form.

I started woodturning as a hobby only recently and find it helps me relax and spend some time with myself away from the everyday goings on in my 9-5 job. I fail to comprehend the seriousness that people are attaching to the comp, life is too short and there are plenty of other things to worry about in this life.

Chill out guys, have fun and be happy with everything you create that your deem good enough to enter the competition

 

[Melinda_dd]

I want to mirror someone elses comment....

This challenge was the reason i dug 8" of snow away from my tiny shed door in the sub zero temperatures, and wiped frost from my lathe bed. It's what I think of when I can't sleep at night, and what keeps me occupied when I'm bored, of the same tedious things day in day out at work.
It's what I bore my partner with alllllll the time!

Please please please don't stop the challenge.

Mr Blister sir. Hats off to you for staying calm enough to deal with these hicups... I wouldn't have the patients.
But just know, I personally sent my heart felt gratitude to you and ALL the judges for making it possible

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

As in the Cambridge Dictionary Online
Definition " a small container used to hold a boiled egg while you eat it " and we had lots of variety of styles

If however the rules stated

Must be 3' high
Must be 2' diameter
Must be hollowed to a depth of 1"
Must hold a egg that is 1 1/4 " around the waist , would this not lead to 20 ish egg cup entry almost identical with no entrant design input

does this not take away the individuals interpretation / Creativity side of things for each entrant ?
Would you like to eat egg and soldiers :lol: from a highly pierced or textured egg cup for hygienic reasons , I wouldn't , so was the judging correct to see the functional and hygiene side of the design

Small but important point I don't think you said that it had to be used for eating an egg from, so one might have thought it could hold a wooden egg as an ornament.

I vote to keep it going.

I agreed with George's criteria about practicality & hygiene etc. I do think it is a shame he has given up due to the "discussion" but that is his choice and I am grateful for the effort he did put in.

I am happy with the Judging as it is, of course no matter what you do everyone will apply their own view to what the consider to be better work. I can't my top 5 always agreed with the judges but then why should it?

At the end of the day win or lose this is just a bit of fun.

Ryan

 

[Daven]

Please, please continue. I have not had time to enter much and doubt if I will get more time buy having read most of the posts to see whats been going on maybe for next year have 1 to 5 points awarded for style, workmanship, usefulness and finish with a statement at the begining of each month showing how the points are awarded - example 'wood used not easy to polish that has high shine get 5 points, tea cup too heavy to pick up gets 1 point or egg cup can't hold weight of egg 1 point'

What I have entered I enjoyed making and found it pushed me to learn techniques I hadn't got round too yet - so even if I got only one point I still won in my view!

Another thing I think maybe the prize's were so good everyone is fighting to get one, so next years should not be so good ;-)

Dave

 

[dennisk]

Please keep on with the competition. I build houses and cabinets and do house renovations for a living , and don't get to spend a lot of time on the lathe, especially trying to make new things with different tools and methods. I am not a designer as you can all see ,but I enjoy the challenge to come with something ,that if it doesn't please the judges or the forum, at least makes my wife or one of the kids or grandkids happy when they receive it. I work with wood and tools and machines all day, but it still feels good to get on the lathe and enjoy some brain candy.

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

It all maybe a bit of fun but, being one that has put loads of effort into a couple of months, to find out that my entry and others have been dismissed and not even considered, due to criteria we wasn't aware would be judged, I can tell you it becomes not fun and heart breaking.

I don't think we need to go down the route of specifying the size of the object but we do need to publish things that will be judged like the item must be easy to clean and securely hold an egg or must not knock over easy.

For this to kick off shows that something has made the fun comp unfun for some. To get that fun back one needs to get serious and speak up about the unfair why in which the judging was done. Thats not a dig at the judge but at the rules and judging on a hole. The judge should have kept to what criteria had been published but more specific requirements could have been published at the beginning.

It does seem at the beginning of each challenge Blister gets inundated with questions regarding the rules. Maybe thinking the rules and requirements through a little more may stop a large percentage of these questions and give the judge a criteria to judge upon.

I too do not wish the comp to end and have donated my services in writing the software for the score board. At the sometime I do wish for a fair chance. Im one of the worst turners in the comp but have even less of a chance when for reasons im not aware of, my item gets dismissed instantly.

Although it did come across that Gordon was having a strop, even though he wasn't, his post wasn't without founding, he felt he wasn't judged fairly and many agreed.

That said lets just get on with the comp and the next round. This is just the first comp so there are bound to be teething problems.

 

[PsyMan]

I have followed the challenge from the start, my late platter entry was a shame but not the end of the world. I have also made something every month that could well have been entered but it was a tad late to join in, that hasnt stopped me using the comp as an inspiration to try new tecniques. I have learned a lot from following the comp so please don't let it go south. I don't envy the judges though as there seems to be a lot riding on personal decisions and my hat is tipped to those who have stepped up to do it. Keep it all going and refine it until everyone is happy again.

 

[Jonzjob]

Onward and upward as the saying goes?

What is the July comp theme? I have tried to find the themes for the year but failed dismally #-o #-o