Commisioning a chest of drawers

[Sagly]

We have this wardrobe from habitat:

http://www.habitat.co.uk/aggy-wardrobe///fcp-product/18905

Swmbo doesn't like the chest of drawers that goes with it but she does like these:

Can anyone give me an idea how much it would cost to commision a copy of these drawers to match the 'oak' wardrobe? Just a ballpark will do so we know whether to discount the idea. My wood butchery isn't quite good enough to have a go myself yet....

 

[OPJ]

It might work out cheaper than the wardrobe you've linked to but, if that was the case, I'm not sure it would be significantly cheaper. If you were happy with a mostly veneered MDF construction (solid oak lippings on the edges) then, that would certainly help to reduce the costs. I can't imagine you'd get a quote for less than £600 though, with all the drawers involved. Those fronts would almost certainly have to be solid oak, if you wanted the same handle detailing.

Could you give us the dimensions of the unit or, maybe the link to site where the photo is from?

I'm tempted to offer my own services at a lower rate, even though I'm only in my workshop at the weekends these days.

 

[woodbloke]

It might work out cheaper than the wardrobe you've linked to but, if that was the case, I'm not sure it would be significantly cheaper. If you were happy with a mostly veneered MDF construction (solid oak lippings on the edges) then, that would certainly help to reduce the costs. I can't imagine you'd get a quote for less than £600 though, with all the drawers involved. Those fronts would almost certainly have to be solid oak, if you wanted the same handle detailing.

Could you give us the dimensions of the unit or, maybe the link to site where the photo is from?

I'm tempted to offer my own services at a lower rate, even though I'm only in my workshop at the weekends these days.

Dunno Olly...I think £600 is still cheap. If it were £600 plus the cost of materials, tooling (if required) and transport I think you'd be getting close. Say £800-£1K and I don't think you'd be far off - Rob

 

[Dodge]

I think you are a bit short of the mark there to be honest

Based on your £800 > £1000 taking the mid position of £900 thats 30 hours at £30 per hour without the cost of materials.

I couldn't make that chest of drawers in 30 hours including all construction/polishing etc.

 

[RogerBoyle]

Are the end Panels dovetailed top and bottom ???

Roger

 

[woodbloke]

I think you are a bit short of the mark there to be honest

Based on your £800 > £1000 taking the mid position of £900 thats 30 hours at £30 per hour without the cost of materials.

I couldn't make that chest of drawers in 30 hours including all construction/polishing etc.

Agreed Rog, but that's at pro rates nest pas? Anyone taking that on working and from home as a hobbyist (such as moi) would probably be working for considerably less per hour than your good self, so maybe £800>£1K isn't so far off the mark, assuming construction as Olly has outlined...oak lipped veneered mdf, but I'm not sure what drawer construction options would bring it within that budget figure. Oak sides, d/t'd construction and C of L bottoms would push it way over £1K - Rob

 

[paultnl]

I don't think undercutting professionals just because you are a hobbyist is particulaly fair as it undermines the market and prevents the pro's from earning a living.

 

[Halo Jones]

I'll play devils advocate then and state that "all amateur woodworkers should now lock their workshops and hand in the keys to make sure the pros make as much as they can and drive up demand so we can lift the country from recession". In theory, even as a hobbyist you are denying the pro his dues by making something yourself. Anyone ever done any DIY?

I know it is reactionary but that is where your argument ultimately leads. A pro's work should be way above what any amateur can produce so therefore demand the premium. If it takes a a amateur a year to make a piece to the same standard then does the pro really have to worry?

H.

 

[Dodge]

I'm not worried, there is work out there for those prepared to look and work hard for it.

At the end of the day the client makes their decision who they go with, whether professional or amateur -I know a lot of extremely talented amateurs out there who could give me a damn good run for my money.

All I will say in defence of the professional is over the last few years as a professional I have had alot of prospective clients contact me asking me to put right an amateurs work that they had previously commissioned and been unhappy with

I'm afraid I refuse to do this not through principle but because I do not wish for others standards to be considered as mine.

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

The outer carcass looks dovetailed so MDF veneered isn't an option. I bet the draws are dovetailed to.

Its a 2 week build including drying times for finish and I would be looking to charge for a weeks and half in labour. Wish my week was only 30 hours, 60 hours is a slow week for me. Anyhow rough estimate £1350 excluding materials. Materials at a very very rough guess £400-500 (without knowing the size, its a hard one to size up by eye). So lets say £1700

 

[woodbloke]

I don't think undercutting professionals just because you are a hobbyist is particulaly fair as it undermines the market and prevents the pro's from earning a living.

What?...now i'm really confused :? So B&Poo, Wickes, Screwfix, Homebase and all the other sheds are there to service the pro's?...dream on. It's called DIY and means that work can be done by the hobbyist so that a pro doesn't have to be paid to do a job.

As for the other comment that pro's work ought to be better than that produced by an amateur or hobbyist...that's also complete tosh. True, there are some amateurs who produce 'amateur' work but equally there are plenty of others who produce stuff as good as, or perhaps better than a pro, witness our own Jim Hooker's piece in this months F&C - Rob

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

I don't think undercutting professionals just because you are a hobbyist is particulaly fair as it undermines the market and prevents the pro's from earning a living.

As for the other comment that pro's work ought to be better than that produced by an amateur or hobbyist...that's also complete tosh. True, there are some amateurs who produce 'amateur' work but equally there are plenty of others who produce stuff as good as, or perhaps better than a pro, witness our own Jim Hooker's piece in this months F&C - Rob

I agree. Amateurs tend to be perfectionists and don't really know when to not be. A pro may also be a perfectionist but knows when to not be. This don't mean that a piece mad by such amateur and such pro will be any different in quality. Pro's are also normally far faster at getting the same result.

 

[paultnl]

Making things for yourself, family or friends is fine but if you compete for a commision you should make sure you include all elements of the price triangle, quality + cost + time. The customer may choose to accept a longer time or lower quality to get a reduced cost but the choice must be honest and clear.

I'll play devils advocate then and state that "all amateur woodworkers should now lock their workshops and hand in the keys to make sure the pros make as much as they can and drive up demand so we can lift the country from recession". In theory, even as a hobbyist you are denying the pro his dues by making something yourself. Anyone ever done any DIY?

I know it is reactionary but that is where your argument ultimately leads. A pro's work should be way above what any amateur can produce so therefore demand the premium. If it takes a a amateur a year to make a piece to the same standard then does the pro really have to worry?

H.

 

[woodbloke]

Pro's are also normally far faster at getting the same result.

Absolutely HC therein lies perhaps the biggest difference 'twixt the amateur and the pro...time. Were you to tender for this piece, the client would expect (and rightly so) the maker to provide a time frame for completion of the job, usually around a month to six weeks at the outside. Were I to tender for the same thing, that's the one thing that I wouldn't be able offer 'cos I wouldn't be prepared to work day in, day out for 'n' hours a day till it got finished. It would get finished but I wouldn't be prepared to work to a tight deadline. The client would need to understand that as an amateur maker, I wouldn't be working under the same constants as the pro - Rob

 

[Halo Jones]

As for the other comment that pro's work ought to be better than that produced by an amateur or hobbyist...that's also complete tosh. True, there are some amateurs who produce 'amateur' work but equally there are plenty of others who produce stuff as good as, or perhaps better than a pro, witness our own Jim Hooker's piece in this months F&C - Rob

Point taken - an "amateur" in the true sense of the word can produce anything to the same standard as a pro, but given the output that an amateur is likely to produce in any given year a pro should really not be worried.

I just need to work on an adjective for someone like me as I would call myself an amateur but can only dream of reaching the standards of some (pros and amateurs) on here.

H.

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

There are other difference's like guarantee's and insurances. Using a professional (really anyone thats using there skills successfully to earn there crust is a pro) your getting that guarantee that they do know what there doing backed up with references etc. Also a Pro can give a period of guarantee on there work after the project is completed and also (if policy taken out) can insure the customer there new project is insured if something is to go wrong and that if they need to sue you, you can pay out (well your insurance can).

An Amateur can get insurance but really if you need insurance of this nature you will now be classed as a pro.

 

[Dodge]

Pro's are also normally far faster at getting the same result.

the client would expect (and rightly so) the maker to provide a time frame for completion of the job, usually around a month to six weeks at the outside. Rob

Rob - a month to six weeks at the outside :shock:

Several of my commissions take far longer and by the time the timber is sourced, allowed to aclimatise made and polished a month to six weeks is nothing :lol:

I always commit a maximum timescale at the time of taking the commission but on average run at a 6 month lead time anyway and that must also be taken into account!

Can i just say that we have got to be careful with this thread as I can see that emotions could run high, lets not see it turn into an argument - PLEASE

We all do different work, live in different areas and offer our services to different clients - there is room for us all, professional or amateur if we play nicely :mrgreen:

 

[woodbloke]

Pro's are also normally far faster at getting the same result.

the client would expect (and rightly so) the maker to provide a time frame for completion of the job, usually around a month to six weeks at the outside. Rob

Rob - a month to six weeks at the outside :shock:

Several of my commissions take far longer and by the time the timber is sourced, allowed to aclimatise made and polished a month to six weeks is nothing :lol:

I always commit a maximum timescale at the time of taking the commission but on average run at a 6 month lead time anyway and that must also be taken into account!

Can i just say that we have got to be careful with this thread as I can see that emotions could run high, lets not see it turn into an argument - PLEASE

We all do different work, live in different areas and offer our services to different clients - there is room for us all, professional or amateur if we play nicely :mrgreen:

Fair enoughski Rog, it's just that when I was working for a firm making stuff for Linley, that's the sort of turn around that he expected...if you took this one on I'd be generous and give you two months! :lol: :lol: :lol: - Rob

 

[Sagly]

Wow, in hindsight it wasn't fair to ask a question like that on this forum.

Ultimately 'you get what you pay for'. I guess each potential customer will have their own priorities and make decisions based on previous experiences. I might get exactly what I want from a professional or an amateur or a 'professional amateur'. Personally, (and I can only speak personally) it's all about my perceived risk. Sometimes it’s worth it to me to pay more and sometimes it isn’t.

Thanks for the responses though, it’s given me a very clearer picture.

 

[wcndave]

I was going to say that the OP appeared to do the sensible thing and retreat to a safe distance after pulling the pin from that particular hand grenade.

or else £2k for what you can get for £40 in Ikea seems scary.... (of course it's not the same, but does SWMBO know that...)

I must admit I told my wife we'd save money by making our own.

What i meant to say was "Over the next 20 years, I will spend 20k on kit, 10k on wood, and you'll not see me at weekends, and at the end we'll have some custom made, non-matching, trial and error amateur made furniture all over the house, and THEN we'll go to IKEA and replace with the cheap crap we should have got in the first place."

However that would be much much less fun!!