Clifton vs. older Record

[Frank Drew]

My first planes were 1970s era Records, and my first primer on using them was Planecraft. At the time I was buying, Record was the most readily available quality choice; Stanley had already gone terribly downhill and I'd never heard of British infill planes such as Norris or Spiers.

I'm slightly contemplating getting a fore or jointer plane; are current production Clifton planes heads and shoulders better than the quality of my older Records? (I'm aware that there are also a number of other high quality producers out there, but I'm curious where Clifton sits in the quality rankings.)

Thanks in advance.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Frank,

You won't be disappointed with Clifton - they are head and shoulders above Record.

I have Records #4, #5, #5 1/2 and #7 (also bought mainly in 1970) and Cliftons #3, #4 1/2, #6 and #7. All of the Cliftons out-perform all of the Records by a significant margin. I now use my Records with heavily cambered blades as scrub-type planes.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Frank Drew]

Thanks, Paul; your assessment is consistent with what I'd imagined to be the case, but I've never seen a Clifton in the flesh.

"I now use my Records with heavily cambered blades as scrub-type planes."

Ouch!

 

[wizer]

My assessment of Clifton in terms of looks and feel is that Clifton's are built to work. They feel right in the hand. There isn't a whole lot of brass, bells and whistles. Of course none of that is needed to plane wood. By all reports I have heard and seen, Clifton are a top notch plane.

 

[Routermonster]

Frank

I have a Clifton No 7 and I'm delighted with it. I also have a Lie-Nielsen No 4 1/2, which is excellent. Although there are differences in fit and finish, both work very well in practice.

Over here in Britain, especially after the recent price hikes, the Cliftons are much cheaper than their LN equivalents. I believe that in the States there isn't much difference between them price-wise, although that may change as a result of the weak pound.

In the States, Cliftons are sold by TFWW and The Best Things.

If you can get hold of a Clifton bench plane, try it out. They are pretty heavy, and, for me the handles are very comfortable. I think you'll be impressed!

HTH

Les

 

[Karl]

Hi Frank

I have a Clifton 7, as well as a number of other planes by LN and LV.

I much prefer the Clifton to any of my other planes. If I had to sell my planes and could only keep one, it would be the Clifton - no contest. Highly recommended.

You may read some reviews of poor quality control, and soles which aren't flat. As far as I understand these relate to historical QC problems at Clifton, and the more recent planes are significantly better.

Cheers

Karl

 

[wizer]

I wonder if Clifton was at the Woodworking in America conference.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

Frank,

I have quite a number of vintage and current production planes and my Clifton #3 ranks among the very top. The fit and finish is excellent and the green color is very pleasing and distinctive. The sole was near perfect and needed no additional fettling and the plane easily takes .001" shavings with a sharp blade and properly set frog.

All things considered, I consider Clifton the equivalent of LN.

T.Z.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

I have a small few Cliftons, as well as an older style Record T5 (judging by the frog and blade shape) which appeared still to have the factory grind when I got it.
Of the Cliftons, all but the 5 1/2 have been excellent from the get go. A couple have needed a little clean up of the bed (paint in the corners) and one had a bur on one of the frog pegs.
The 5 1/2 (a few years old) has moved (the sole is concave), and needs flattening.
The Record took quite a lot of work to flatten, being convex, and with unsquare sides (an issue since I shoot with it)

 

[Philly]

I wonder if Clifton was at the Woodworking in America conference.

No, only one British Planemaker at WIA this year.........
Philly

 

[bugbear]

My first planes were 1970s era Records, and my first primer on using them was Planecraft. At the time I was buying, Record was the most readily available quality choice; Stanley had already gone terribly downhill and I'd never heard of British infill planes such as Norris or Spiers.

I'm slightly contemplating getting a fore or jointer plane; are current production Clifton planes heads and shoulders better than the quality of my older Records? (I'm aware that there are also a number of other high quality producers out there, but I'm curious where Clifton sits in the quality rankings.)

Thanks in advance.

Clifton's given modern materials and processes are better than vintage Stanley bedrocks (the design is very similar). And vintage (e.g. crica 1925) Stanley Bedrocks are considered much better than ordinary Baileys, and (in turn) earlier (pre WWII) ordinary Baileys are considered much better than 1970's examples.

That puts a pretty large gulf between a Clifton and your Records, a gulf borne out by my experience of both tools.

BugBear

 

[Frank Drew]

Thanks everyone; the unanimity of opinion is convincing.

Les, The Best Things is actually located not too far from me, so a first hand look will be quite easy.

 

[bugbear]

Thanks everyone; the unanimity of opinion is convincing.

Les, The Best Things is actually located not too far from me, so a first hand look will be quite easy.

I didn't notice you were in America (this being a UK board and all...)

With the present exchange rate, I think Clifton and LN prices are very similar indeed in the US

BugBear

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

BB,

You are correct in your pricing assumptions and was a point that I poorly tried to get across in a post either in this thread or another. I acutally prefer Cliftons mainly because of the iron, which (subjectively) feels much better to me in sharpening (and therefore also use) than those blasted A2 irons. I've also picked up a Ray Isles oil hardened iron and, although better than A2, is still not like the forged (I think) Clifton iron.

T.Z.

 

[ivan]

Horses for courses to some extent, but I like my Cliftons which have a bit more weight than the LN, which I also bought as Clifton don't do a 50 deg (or more!) frog. Planes for fine work have LN No. 8 blade ground down to 2 3/8" because it's 4.8mm thick. The cap iron needs a simple mod, covered on other threads. I have a pre war Stanley 4 1/2 which is is good. Two Records bought in the late 1960s are long gone. I have a late made Record No 8, the third one supplied had a flat sole and has stayed flat ever since!

 

[bugbear]

Planes for fine work have LN No. 8 blade ground down to 2 3/8" because it's 4.8mm thick.

Which plane(s) got that lovely treat?

BugBear