What next plane to make?

[D_W]

I'm going to make another infill plane. I fancy the older norris and spiers patterns, but don't want to make a dead copy at this point.

Last week, I received a norris 15 1/2 inch No 13 panel plane in the mail. It's a brute - an extremely thick lower part of the casting (perhaps approaching 3/8ths of an inch, and 8 1/2 pounds, but a little nose heavy.

I also want to make another wedge plane (you can make lever caps by hand (I don't have "machine tools"), and I will, but I like that the cross strap on a wedged plane looks a little different and in this case will invite the ability to file something interesting (like a cupid's bow or something else) (the lever cap does, too, if you go to the trouble of doing neat filework at the top and up the neck). And the wedge can be made into something interesting, also (scroll, etc, or scroll with a shoulder).

Seeing the distribution of the Norris 13 weight-wise makes me think that the same thing might do well with an extra inch on the rear so that the plane doesn't drag your hand down.

And lastly, I see the potential to make the sides into an elephant profile as my friend George has done on another plane, except in reverse (his elephant faced forward).

http://www.norrisplanes.com/norris-numb ... nel-plane/

I will be dovetailing it, of course, but unless it's brass-sided, it won't matter looks-wise, as we don't want to see the dovetails on the finished plane.

So, 16 1/2 inch plane, sort of like the no 13 with a bit more tail and the back profile of an elephant facing rearward. I'll try to do the woodwork a little more crisp than the average norris, too (which even in the older planes can be a bit funny sometimes). Any smart ideas?

A 2 1/2 inch double iron is de rigueur here, so not going to waver from that.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I will be interested to see how it turns out.

On a separate issue, having looked at the link you provided the catalogue price for the 12 1/2" version was 27/6' (27 shillings and six pennies) in 1914 when the average weekly wage for a ships joiner/wheelwright etc was 40/ (40 shillings) Therefore, the plane was approx equivalent to 3 days wages for a tradesman in that particular field. A labourer on the other hand earned approx 22 Shillings/week. As a point of interest 20 Shillings equates to £1. .......or at least it did. The UK currency changed in 1971.

In 1914 £1 Sterling was equivalent to $5.50 US. .........just in case you have historical interest.

 

[D_W]

That's actually quite a nice price. I had to pay about $750-$800 US for a rosewood 15 1/2 panel plane that's got some cosmetic issues, but not too bad. And a no 13 smoother that's in beater condition basically (but tight, just pretty harshly treated over the years) was about $300US.

I could make comments about prices (they don't make any performance sense, and they're below the level of planes a collector would really want due to condition), but they're patterns and if I make a few of one, I won't regret (and don't at this point) trapping a few bucks in these planes for a while.

Anyway, the nice price part - i recall someone telling me that a norris A5 was a couple of weeks' worth of work when Norris was in their death throes, which never sounded to me like it could be correct. Haven't checked the price on planes of this era, but would assume that the work in dovetailing a no 1 would make them quite a bit more expensive than the no 13. (of course, the later no 1s weren't dovetailed, and presumably by then, the no 13 as out of commission).

For the relatively plain styling my 13 smoother has, even disregarding condition, it is a complete delight to use. the pattern is relatively favorable to make because it's sort of plain but not homely (despite Chris Schwarz's criticism - I'll have to see some landmark thing that he's made before considering his criticism of norris planes as coming from a position of authority).

The panel plane bun needs little to look nice, though it might benefit from some vertical downscaling, but the smoothing plane bun might require a little bit of thinking (I will eventually make two smoothers in the no 13 pattern because a friend wants one). Karl holtey told me long ago that I could "borrow" elements from his patterns, but I put building these aside and didn't make anything decent. I don't want to copy his work, and his precision is beyond anything i'll ever participate in.

 

[D_W]

the price difference between the two isn't really that much (the no 1 and no 13) in the 1914 catalog.

I guess they would've had patterns and (dovetailing is not hard to do, but it is a bit time consuming without machine tools) and specialized machining setups to do all but the fine work with dovetailing.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I must confess to not appreciating the values of ancient tools nor indeed how plentiful they were as the time, or now even.
The prices I identified were circa the First World War era. A tradesman of the day would have had to lay out equivalent to 3 days wages for a Norris plane. I suspect equivalent to say, a Lie Nielsen in today's market. Of course I am referring to U.K. Wages, which may or may not equate to pay rates in the US?
Anyways, I hope you found it of use? Although 3000 dollars seems at lot of money for the Norris? Again, I have no idea of their value or rarity in the UK. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that!

 

[D_W]

I must confess to not appreciating the values of ancient tools nor indeed how plentiful they were as the time, or now even.
The prices I identified were circa the First World War era. A tradesman of the day would have had to lay out equivalent to 3 days wages for a Norris plane. I suspect equivalent to say, a Lie Nielsen in today's market. Of course I am referring to U.K. Wages, which may or may not equate to pay rates in the US?
Anyways, I hope you found it of use? Although 3000 dollars seems at lot of money for the Norris? Again, I have no idea of their value or rarity in the UK. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that!

Fortunately, it was $300, but a panel plane cost me a little over double that. I like the pattern, though - even though it was cast, it'll be a nice pattern for dovetailing, and it's straight instead of curved (which is important for someone with limited tooling).

Even at an equivalent price of $750, as rare as longer A13 panel planes are, there must be no real market for them. Less than a stanley 1 is over here, and those are uncommon, but not that uncommon.

It's nice to me that folks in the UK think the price for most less than perfect infills is absurd (and that's reasonable to say), because I don't need to bid against folks in country for them, too. You guys made me pay enough for a mint older record 8 and I. Sorby #7 jointer.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

You may now find there is less of a threat from U.K. Bidders, due primarily to the currency crash. Not that long ago were were receiving $2US for every £1 Sterling. In effect, tools in the US were half price for us. I have bought several tools from the US in the past. Fortunately, my sister lived in the US for several years due to a military secondment. Therefore, I was receiving tools shipped over as "gifts" without paying high shipping fees or import duty. Now we Brits are less likely to look at US markets and of course your "Buck" will by more here.