'Clear' non yellowing finish?

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stuartpaul

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I'm a bit of a danish oil aholic in that it tends to be my finish of choice for most things.

It does however noticably yellow quite quickly on light woods. Less of an issue on darker woods but I have some light wood projects on the go and would like to preserve the lightness for as long as possible.

I wondered about shellac but know that can yellow a bit as well. Also heard about some of the Osmo products but never used any.

Recommendations please?
 
Water based polyurethane is as non-yellowing as I've found. It is also easy to use and widely available. In a matt version, it can be close to invisible, but with some protection against dirt and spills.
 
Water-bourne poly is the standard answer here except for those who have spray gear which opens up other possibilities. There's also Rustin's Plastic Coating which is completely clear but that's not nearly as easy to apply and I think it's far more expensive too.

I don't think the discolouration of shellac is anything to worry about. Bear in mind that the wood itself will darken somewhat with light exposure, which might sometimes be erroneously blamed on the finish discolouring. This colour change can be quite significant, near a bright window pine/spruce that's virtually white to begin with will go a light tan colour without any contribution from the finish used in only a couple of years. There's no way to permanently protect against this other than to physically shield the item from light.
 
Thanks for the responses.

I've tended to shy away from water based finishes as I tend to find they leave a rather 'thick' coating that looks and feels artificial. Perhaps it's been the product I've used (floor varnish). Any particular product to consider? I prefer wiping on rather than brushing is this an issues with these?
 
I had a job recently where they wanted a clear finish for external furniture and found a product from Polyvine. Its a flat matt exterior varnish. (http://polyvine.com/index.php/en/exteri ... od-varnish). It does need a lot of coats though (think it was there satin coats and then 2 flat coats) but dries quickly and easy to spray on. Didn't notice any discolouring at all but as you say does have a fair bit of build up just by number of coats. seems to work though. Not the cheapest either but guess depends on scale. Overall thought it was good for a water based product.
 
I was told by a local woodworker (who was from the UK incidentally) that you can tint the regular Osmo hardwax oil, to a ratio of 85% regular and 15% of their white tinted hardwax oil, and you get a result that hardly appears any whiter than uncolored, but the tiny smidge of white keeps the yellowing from happening.
 
I've mixed my own analogue but I doubt it's proof against yellowing. I used mineral spirits, tung oil, raw linseed oil, beeswax and carnauba wax. Mixed in a jar a double boiler until it all melted together. Had to add more mineral spirits to keep it liquid at room temp. compared to the transparent osmo stuff mine is yellow and opaque.

Still I know what's in it and it looks nice IMO.
 
stuartpaul":2v8f5z0k said:
I've tended to shy away from water based finishes as I tend to find they leave a rather 'thick' coating that looks and feels artificial. Perhaps it's been the product I've used (floor varnish). Any particular product to consider? I prefer wiping on rather than brushing is this an issues with these?
It's most likely your technique that gives you these, what I gather are, unsatisfactory results. With regard to application I'm not the biggest fan of water borne finishes because they can be challenging to apply. Their often sought after characteristics include their non-yellowing tendencies, their ability, to a point, to slow down long term colour change in the wood (due to the inclusion in many cases of UV blockers whose effectiveness over the long term diminish), and their relatively quick drying leading to less contamination through dust, bugs and the like dropping into a slow drying still wet surface which you face with oil based varnishes.

As to application technique if using a brush the best suggestions I can make through a forum are to start by using the appropriate better quality synthetic brushes. Get a decent load in the brush and starting from roughly the mid point on one edge apply a layer of finish in one direction travelling outwards over the end followed by repeating this working in the other direction over the other end. Basically, never brush from the end towards the centre so that you don't get runs, sags or curtains on the end. Once you've applied your first stripe of finish, reload the brush and apply the next stripe of finish overlapping the first by about an eighth or so.

The trick is to not overwork the applied finish. If possible lay it on and move on to the next stripe. If you do have to go back over do it within a minute or two: squeeze out as much finish as you can off the brush on the rim of the container and 'tip-off' the already applied polish. Holding the almost dry brush nearly vertical to the surface drift it downwards (a bit like landing an aeroplane) somewhere near the centre so the bristle tips gently move the still wet finish to a better more even coverage, then leave it alone. Move on to applying the next full stripe of finish. If there are cock-ups, voids and other faults after this, let the finish cure, sand and correct with your second coat.

I think the trick is to learn how much to load the brush, applying correctly, and knowing when to reload. I think it's fairly obvious in the above description that I was describing application of finish to a panel, but similar application strategies are necessary for more fiddly parts such as legs and rails.

As to brands, I don't have any particular favourites because I basically don't like water borne finishes, but they are a necessary finish type we're having to adapt to through legislation and client preferences: they're generally not easy to apply well without a spray gun (and even that can be a bit tricky), can be a bit plasticky when cured and applied too thickly, can be cold looking (generally horrible on walnut for example unless goosed up a bit with some warming colour), and sometimes have an unattractive blue cast to them when cured. The last brand I used was Wickes own satin brand. It was no better or worse than any other brand I've used, but it came out nice and smooth with very little streaking, brush marks, or other blemishes, so it was good enough for some tables and mirrors I'd knocked up. Slainte.
 
stuartpaul":1s3z9gdz said:
I've tended to shy away from water based finishes as I tend to find they leave a rather 'thick' coating that looks and feels artificial. Perhaps it's been the product I've used (floor varnish).
Well that would be intended to build fast, i.e. with fewer coats, so it wouldn't have helped :)

stuartpaul":1s3z9gdz said:
I prefer wiping on rather than brushing is this an issues with these?
Yes unfortunately. Wiping isn't really a suitable application method for water-bourne poly or other similar finishes. I'm sure someone has gotten it to work but there are two common issues: the fact that you can't thin it as easily (it's usually recommended not to thin with water, although it must be said that adding a small amount is very unlikely to hurt) but mainly the fast drying which makes it much more challenging to wipe away the excess which can be one of the keys to a wiping application.

But the occasional user can still get a good result with W-BP. For flat expanses, larger ones in particular, I'd recommend trying rolling it on with a foam roller or one with a short nap, but you'll need a brush for edges and some other elements. Don't use a natural-bristle brush here. A few of the synthetics can work well but taklon AKA golden nylon will often be found to work best.

Some people swear by foam brushes for water-bourne finishes but I'm not a fan (great for oil-based though). They are very cheap however so well worth trying so you can decide for yourself.
 
Further thanks for the responses.

It looks like I'm likely to stick with my tried and tested methods of danish and shellac. I really don't want to experiment with finishes on good work and chance ruining it. I may experiment in due course and will do a bit more reading and research first.
 
My kitchen is finished off with Smith & Rogers Aquacote satin finish.The Aquacote is a superb finish; its water based and only requires 2 hours before re-coating. I put four coats on with a paint pad using 240 Abranet between coats. If you check my kitchen post you will see the results.
 
stuartpaul":12tobycf said:
I have some light wood projects on the go and would like to preserve the lightness for as long as possible...heard about some of the Osmo products but never used any.

Recommendations please?


Presumably you mean Osmo Raw Transparent Oil, Osmo 3186, and Osmo 3111. Here's what they look like on Birch

Osmo-White.jpg


Trans Oil (3044) is designed to meet the current market demand for an "invisible" or "natural" finish for pale timbers that still offers a reasonable degree of protection. It contains a blue/white tint that exactly neutralises the yellowing from the oil content. I don't have enough long term experience of it to say how it'll hold up over time, but initially at least it's very impressive. Then there are two other Osmo products that go further still, 3111 has a bleached/driftwood look and 3186 takes it further still but starts to look a little too chalky for my tastes plus the gloss level is getting a bit too high (again, just my opinion).

With all three you'll get all the usual Osmo benefits, ease of application, low odour, moisture and wear resistance, etc. They do however deliver quite different results on different timbers, so get some of the sample sachets and try it on scrap first.

I suspect we'll be hearing a lot more about these products, they're right on trend and there's nothing else quite like them.
 

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Thought I'd revive this old thread with a photo of Osmo PolyX on European oak.....applied about a year ago, alongside applied a week ago:

QQaHKGo.jpg


It's a poor photo, but the two centre boards show up quite differently from the two outer boards. The centre ones were done recently. I am completely and utterly giving up on oil as a finish for oak, given that the Osmo is best I've found. Stale urine colour isn't the look I'm after. It's water-bourne polyurethane varnish for me, for the foreseeable.....
 
You call it stale urine - I'd call it honey gold - funny thing, taste!
I really like that colour. :)
 
I used to use water based poly but it never seemed to dry hard, it always seemed to be soft.

Pete
 
I think that's a temperature-dependent thing, Pete. If you are in really warm dry conditions I don't expect you'll suffer that effect at all.
 
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