Circular Plane Help Required

[xy mosian]

Hi all,
As a hobby woodworker most of my tools get less use than they deserve, some almost none. Yesterday I dragged my Circular plane out of its resting place to actually use. This about the second time in twenty years or so. I am attempting a curved, should that be bowed, front to a corner cabinet and needed to plane the edges of two of the pieces.
I managed it, using the circular plane, but I cannot say that I really new what I was doing. I think it was more a matter of fiddle until it's right.
Here is what I did. I drew around a template, of the curve, and then cut slightly away from the line with my Jigsaw. Picked up the circular plane and set the curve of the bottom to fit the template. When I went to plane the edge nothing happened. Of course the sole of the plane was touching the timber at each end but not around the blade. The solution was to increase the radius of the sole to achieve a cut and adjust it as I went along.
All in all I think using a spokeshave might well have been quicker. Have any of you experience in using these planes, or a reference to thier best use? I ahve another edge to plane soon and I would like to know what I am/should be doing.
xy

 

[Sgian Dubh]

It sounds as if you've got it about right. Compass planes are not the easiest tools to use with their tendency for the frog mechanism to rock on the flexible sole even after everything is set and locked in place. And, yes, you do have to adjust the curvature of the sole to something different to the desired curve: tighter for concave shapes, and looser (longer radius) for convex curves. There's also the area of the sole from a point just in front of the mouth to another point a bit behind the frog that doesn't really curve at all well because of the fixings holding the frog in place.

So, all in all, they're a bit tricky to handle. You have to learn how to read them on both the curve you're trying to execute, and how the frog/blade/mouth opening area is reacting, and develop a firm grasping and planing technique.

Obvious things that help are a well sharpened blade, a reasonably finely set cap iron, frog in decent order, etc, and a few swipes with a candle on the sole. Apart from that it's just a case of practicing, and you'll find some materials easier to work than others. Working with these planes does tend to improve as you learn to read their quirks better, but I've never found them to be entirely trouble free, and I've been using them on and off for more decades than I care to recall! Slainte.

 

[xy mosian]

Thank you Richard, It seems that I'm not too far away then. As I said one more curved edge and back into retirement for this fella. Of course I will have exactly the same problems when I pick it up again.
xy

 

[Sgian Dubh]

xy, one material these planes work on rather well is the edge of MDF. So if you're creating something like a curved edge on a cabinet or table top, or multiples thereof, you might consider working up the desired shape on a piece of 9 or 12 mm MDF thus making a template. You then attach the MDF to the panel and trim it with a router and a bearing guided bit. Obviously you have to cut the panel near a curved line marked off the template, and attach it prior to routing; and there's still some scalloping to remove along the worked edge. You may also find you need to do some of the shaping using a climb cutting technique with the router, which is something you should only attempt if you really know what you're doing; for example, don't climb cut with a table mounted inverted router.

In addition, you're introducing a two stage process to the job and using more material if you're making a one-off. On the other hand, if you mess up making the template, e.g., notchy, missed the line, etc, you can at least chuck it away and start again until you get it right because MDF is pretty cheap, whereas your table or cabinet top (or whatever it is you're making) is likely to be relatively expensive. Slainte.

 

[xy mosian]

Hi Richard.
I had thought of using a template with a router, but I figured that I would be doing to the template exactly what I needed to do to the timber. As I am not pushed for time the choice was easy for me. From what you say I have been lucky, there are a couple of slight marks in the edges but nothing that won't go in final sanding. I'm getting nervous about the next edge now.
I do find your words interesting. I tried a close chipbreaker, something less than 1/16", and the mouth choked. When I examined the plane, with the blade edge flush to the sole the available mouth is slightly less than 1mm. I would call that fairly tight. When I have finished the job I may see if the frog is adjustable. There is a bolt head visible, but there may be no adjustment of course.
I've just remembered, the tricky bit was remembering to start the cut at the apex, not on uphill grain!

Thanks again for your interest.
xy

 

[Sgian Dubh]

You mean you went to all that effort just to get a nicely curved edge on a bit of knotty redwood! Oh well, I guess it's good practice for the time you need to do the job on something a bit more challenging, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[xy mosian]

You mean you went to all that effort just to get a nicely curved edge on a bit of knotty redwood! Oh well, I guess it's good practice for the time you need to do the job on something a bit more challenging, ha, ha. Slainte.

Yup! Still as you say practice etc. Of course by the time I'll need to use it again I will have forgotten your words. Hopefuly I will be able to find them on here.

xy

 

[Jacob]

I wonder of compass planes are just another tool makers idea of what the market might buy, but in fact are not very necessary.
It's easy enough to cut a curve with a band saw or frame saw and then clean it up with a spokeshave (a flat one will do for inside shallow curves) or if you are doing it often just take an old woody and cut a radius on the sole. Failing that - work through sandpaper grades on a curved block. The offcut is magically the right radius for a block so you don't have to look far!
There are quite a few tools like that - people imagine they are useful just because they exist, but this might be a delusion.

 

[xy mosian]

Hi Jacob, From my own fumblings and Sgian's words I can see this type of plane being a right pig if the curvature of the sole were not adjustable. That is not the case with woody versions of course. There must have been some trickery that I'm not aware of. I agree entirely about the spokeshave and sandpaper, if needed.
Still interestingly my plane, Stanley 113, was given to me in the box of a Record 020, from a long established joiner's shop. The two must have been together at some time. Possibly a mistake in the original tool shop, possibly two very similar planes in the joiner's shop. The latter suggests that the joiner's had sufficient use to warrant having two.
All in all, when I have done the next, last edge, I doubt that I will use it again in a hurry.
xy

 

[Argus]

.

Agreed with all said about the compass plane.
Mine's a pig to set up and use, with a mind of its own and an inbred hatred of hard Oak. But I've never really considered them anything other than a shaping tool. Getting a clean cut, even with a well honed blade is a bit of a fight.

However to be a bit unorthodox, try it with a toothed blade in place of the conventional blades, if you can.

I had a few odd curved shapes to rough out for some chair backs last year. I couldn't get it to cut cleanly, whatever I did, but I found that my Record 020 would accept one of those Kunz bevel-down toothed blades.
(Some folk don't like them, but they have their uses).

Set very fine with the tips just protruding, it worked very well to the point where the shape was excavated with the compass plane then finished off free-hand with rasps and finally a flat scraper.

I said it was unorthodox....... but it worked.

 

[xy mosian]

Hi Argus,
Thanks for your input. I don't have a toothing blade so I cannot try your suggestion. It may be useful to others though.
Unorthodox, that doesn't bother me, I can't see it bothering the wood either. As far as I am concerned I use what I have, provided I can get the results I want. In this case I thought the circular/compass plane might be easier, or quicker than any other method, besides being a rare chance to learn by using it. I haven't quite figured out just why it is so awkward to use. In a way I'm a little pleased that others, with more experience, also find it a bit of a pain. I was bothered that I might be missing something. Perhaps it boils down to practise, or lack of in my case.
xy

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I'm a little pleased that others, with more experience, also find it a bit of a pain. I was bothered that I might be missing something. Perhaps it boils down to practise, or lack of in my case. xy

Really working out where the cutting edge is in relation to the wood you're trying to shape is a key component. The next component, once you've established that the cutting edge is engaging the wood is the very firm grip, or perhaps that should be firm control to keep the cutting edge engaged so that you don't get juddering and skipping going on. The flexible sole is the main culprit for that. They're still difficult planes to work though compared to most others. Slainte.

 

[xy mosian]

Thanks Richard, That's just about where I'd got to. Nice concise guidance always good to have.
xy

 

[Argus]

xy,


The thought occurred to me some while back, when I first got a compass plane for a specific project, that whilst it is called a 'plane', in use it is more like a shave than a plane in the way that you approach a cut.
With its conventional blade, take short, light strokes as you would with a spoke shave, instead of expecting long shavings.

Hope this helps, but it does take some patience to get the things to work, plus constant adjustment of both sole and blade protrusion.

Persevere!

 

[Modernist]

Don't take this the wrong way but my limited experience was quite different. I made some Krenov legs out of redwood on a template using the spindle then the circular plane, admittedly a bit more modern than your example, and was surprised how well it cut. It was sharp and fairly finely set and was taking shorter shavings as described above but no real problems and a nice finish. First time lucky perhaps, or maybe a different story on hardwood?

 

[Argus]

.

It's always a pleasure to hear about a nice piece of compliant wood behaving well.

What I was attempting to suggest was that the nature of the tool and the work it does, can mean a high degree of free-hand work.

.

 

[xy mosian]

Thanks all, I have lots to think about, and try out, next time I need to use this 'delightful' tool. If all else fails there is always sandpaper. Modernist, whatever you are doing, standing only on left foot, waiting until the wind is in the west or something, I hope it keeps working for you. Ha Ha. I'm just a little envious.
xy