choosing the right type of chisels and honing tools

[J_SAMa]

hi,
im looking for some good chisels to buy but i have no idea what type will suit me the best. i will mainly use them for chopping and cleaning up mortises, dovetails and some other joints. what type of chisels, but i thought it'd be good if i just buy some all-rounder chisels that i can use for anything. i have heard of a lot of types of chisels (butt chisels, bevel edge chisel, bench chisel, mortise chisel etc.). well, they all look pretty much the same to me... can somebody explain the differences and tell me which is the best for me? again, i would like to buy some all-rounders.
also if you know any good models/sets of chisels please tell me. im willing to spend about 100 pounds on my chisels.

my other question is about honing/sharpening stones. i have absolutely no idea what kind of sharpening stones i should buy for sharpening chisels. i think im going to need at least three different stones for different degrees of "aggressiveness". what stones should i buy for coarse sharpening, smoothing and polishing? i know this is a very general and hard to ask question but please just help the new guy here...

thanks and sorry for such basic and general questions
Sam

 

[stoatyboy]

Well i'm not fool enough to get involved in the sharpening debate but for chisels you might like to consider some thing like these stanleys

http://www.toolstop.co.uk/stanley-5-16- ... -set-p6495

don't get the set shown as the stone and guide are **** but that type of chisel will do most things - can take a bash if necessary and also pare pretty well. I've got a set of B&Q basic ones and they're ok if you keep them sharp. other makes are available. General bevel edged ones are very common, cheap and will do most things if you don't go mad

that's if you're the kind of guy that must have a full and matching set of things before you feel ready and able to begin anything

if not you could buy posher ones in ones or twos as you need them for each project and build up to a set that way

or you could go to a boot fair with a tenner and take a punt - there's always someone with chisels and if you screw up the sharpening it won't matter as they won't be sharp when you got them

hope that helps

 

[J_SAMa]

Well i'm not fool enough to get involved in the sharpening debate but for chisels you might like to consider some thing like these stanleys

http://www.toolstop.co.uk/stanley-5-16- ... -set-p6495

don't get the set shown as the stone and guide are dung but that type of chisel will do most things - can take a bash if necessary and also pare pretty well. I've got a set of B&Q basic ones and they're ok if you keep them sharp. other makes are available. General bevel edged ones are very common, cheap and will do most things if you don't go mad

that's if you're the kind of guy that must have a full and matching set of things before you feel ready and able to begin anything

if not you could buy posher ones in ones or twos as you need them for each project and build up to a set that way

or you could go to a boot fair with a tenner and take a punt - there's always someone with chisels and if you screw up the sharpening it won't matter as they won't be sharp when you got them

hope that helps

hi stoatyboy,
so bevel edge chisels are what im looking for right?
well i know stanley makes a lot of quality tools but how about this one:
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/irwin-marples ... of-6-p1551
this set seems to get a lot of positives reviews on different websites
Sam

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Hi Sam,

The type of chisel you need depends on the type of work you intend to do. For furnituremaking and light joinery, bevel edged chisels are a good general purpose choice, because they can clean out the angles of dovetail joints, and do most chopping type jobs as well, provided you don't go mad with them. For chopping mortices, when much heavier mallet blows tend to be used, a mortice chisel is better; mortice chisels also have a very thick blade which helps to keep the chisel square in the mortice it's cutting. The term 'bench chisels' is a sort of general term for any chisel a woodworker might use at the bench, and they might be bevel-edged, firmers or other sorts.

For heavy carpentry, timber framing, boatbuilding and other outdoor work, framing chisels or heavy duty firmer chisels will stand up to heavy malleting much better than the relatively delicate bevel edge chisels.

If you're just starting out doing furniture type work at a bench, may I suggest that a few good quality bevel-edged chisels would be a good investment. The most useful sizes would be 3mm, 6mm, 12mm, 20mm and 30mm, or thereabouts. Later on, you could buy a really small one, say 1.5mm, and a really big one, say 40mm, and maybe a few intermediate sizes if you felt you needed them. For cutting mortices in furniture work, most frame stock is about 20 mm to 25mm thick, so one or two mortice chisels of 6mm and 8mm will do almost all you are likely to meet. You can always buy other sizes if the work you end up doing needs them. (My bevel-edged chisels are a mixture of vintage secondhand Sheffield chisels, and new ones by Ashley Iles which are superb, and my mortice chisels are all vintage Sheffield ones. In Germany, brands like Two Cherries (Kirschen?) have an excellent reputation, I gather. Buy two or three, and if you like them, stick with that brand.)

I have bought tools from Dieter Schmid in Berlin in the past, and found their range and service to be excellent. The English website address is http://www.fine-tools.com but I'm not sure if that's applicable to Germany.

On sharpening, there is a recent thread on this section started by GazPal on which sharpening method people prefer, which may give you some answers. When you've decided which method to try, Dieter Schmid supply sharpening stones, too.

 

[GazPal]

Well i'm not fool enough to get involved in the sharpening debate but for chisels you might like to consider some thing like these stanleys

http://www.toolstop.co.uk/stanley-5-16- ... -set-p6495

don't get the set shown as the stone and guide are dung but that type of chisel will do most things - can take a bash if necessary and also pare pretty well. I've got a set of B&Q basic ones and they're ok if you keep them sharp. other makes are available. General bevel edged ones are very common, cheap and will do most things if you don't go mad

that's if you're the kind of guy that must have a full and matching set of things before you feel ready and able to begin anything

if not you could buy posher ones in ones or twos as you need them for each project and build up to a set that way

or you could go to a boot fair with a tenner and take a punt - there's always someone with chisels and if you screw up the sharpening it won't matter as they won't be sharp when you got them

hope that helps

hi stoatyboy,
so bevel edge chisels are what im looking for right?
well i know stanley makes a lot of quality tools but how about this one:
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/irwin-marples ... of-6-p1551
this set seems to get a lot of positives reviews on different websites
Sam

I've used the same set of Marples chisels for quite a few years now and also have a couple of sets of Stanley 5002's in firmer and bevel edge configurations. I can recommend both types for use professionally, as well as on a DIY basis. I've no complaints regarding either chisel brand/models and find them well balanced with tough blades capable of taking and holding a very good edge. They simply need honing when you first un-pack them.

 

[GazPal]

My other question is about honing/sharpening stones. i have absolutely no idea what kind of sharpening stones i should buy for sharpening chisels. i think im going to need at least three different stones for different degrees of "aggressiveness". what stones should i buy for coarse sharpening, smoothing and polishing? i know this is a very general and hard to ask question but please just help the new guy here...

thanks and sorry for such basic and general questions
Sam

Hi Sam,

Sorby make very decent mortise chisels http://www.tilgear.info/sections/5698/s ... e_chisels/ and I'd consider investing in diamond sharpening plates with medium, fine and extra fine grits, whereas honing guide I'd suggest an eclipse honing guide if you wish to invest in an inexpensive guide rather than heading down the freehand honing route.

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi Sam,

The type of chisel you need depends on the type of work you intend to do. For furnituremaking and light joinery, bevel edged chisels are a good general purpose choice, because they can clean out the angles of dovetail joints, and do most chopping type jobs as well, provided you don't go mad with them. For chopping mortices, when much heavier mallet blows tend to be used, a mortice chisel is better; mortice chisels also have a very thick blade which helps to keep the chisel square in the mortice it's cutting. The term 'bench chisels' is a sort of general term for any chisel a woodworker might use at the bench, and they might be bevel-edged, firmers or other sorts.

For heavy carpentry, timber framing, boatbuilding and other outdoor work, framing chisels or heavy duty firmer chisels will stand up to heavy malleting much better than the relatively delicate bevel edge chisels.

If you're just starting out doing furniture type work at a bench, may I suggest that a few good quality bevel-edged chisels would be a good investment. The most useful sizes would be 3mm, 6mm, 12mm, 20mm and 30mm, or thereabouts. Later on, you could buy a really small one, say 1.5mm, and a really big one, say 40mm, and maybe a few intermediate sizes if you felt you needed them. For cutting mortices in furniture work, most frame stock is about 20 mm to 25mm thick, so one or two mortice chisels of 6mm and 8mm will do almost all you are likely to meet. You can always buy other sizes if the work you end up doing needs them. (My bevel-edged chisels are a mixture of vintage secondhand Sheffield chisels, and new ones by Ashley Iles which are superb, and my mortice chisels are all vintage Sheffield ones. In Germany, brands like Two Cherries (Kirschen?) have an excellent reputation, I gather. Buy two or three, and if you like them, stick with that brand.)

I have bought tools from Dieter Schmid in Berlin in the past, and found their range and service to be excellent. The English website address is http://www.fine-tools.com but I'm not sure if that's applicable to Germany.

On sharpening, there is a recent thread on this section started by GazPal on which sharpening method people prefer, which may give you some answers. When you've decided which method to try, Dieter Schmid supply sharpening stones, too.

hi,
thank you for the detailed reply, especailly for recommending me that website (yes it seems to be applicable to anywhere in europe). my only concern is that they sell tools for unusually low prices, so is the website trustworthy? i've had some really bad experience with tools sold really cheaply on websites so im a little paranoid now...
i guess i'll just buy a bevel edge chisel or two from marples, and switch to veritas when im more experienced (veritas is a good brand right?).
Sam

 

[SteveW1000]

It would be worth checking with recent purchasers on the quality of new Stanley and Marples chisels. I've a set of 40 year old Stanley 5001s and the Marples chisels of that era are equally fine, the quality of modern Stanley and Marples I'm not so sure about some of the tool brands that Irwin now own have supposedly gone down hill. Narex chisels are also worth a look they seem to get very good reviews and are cheaper than either of the sets you've looked at.

Steve

 

[Jelly]

In my opinion, certain designs of chisel are most useful at different sizes...

• Bevel Edged Chisels: are intended for cleaning out dovetail joints and other acute angles, these tend to be quite fine work, so smaller sizes of chisel are going to see the most use. Indeed, even if you make a massive dovetail, you'd only need a bevel edge chisel to clean out the corners, so could still do fine with a little one.
• Firmer Chisels: are workhorses, used for chopping away waste, cutting shallow rebates, splitting waste off tenons and generally being belted with a mallet; these suit medium to larger sizes.

Those are the basic chisels, you can acomplish any of the tasks that you can with more specialised chisels with those two... it just won't be as easy. So...

• Mortice Chisels: suit small to medium sizes, cutting a big mortice is a lot easier if you hog out the waste with an auger or forstner drill-bit then chop it square with a firmer; the mortice chisel is for mortices too narrow for this to be practical... how small you go is entirely down to the work you do, how small a tenon would you want to cut? (it's worth noting that "Sash Mortice" chisels are intended for shallow mortices, and "Pig Sticker" mortice chisels, which are not readily available new, are able to handle much much deeper cuts.)
• Butt Chisels: used for cleaning out joints in awkward places, a smaller size will be more versatile, but it's all relative to the size of the joints you regularly make.
• Paring chisels: suit small and medium sizes, whilst available, a large paring chisel can often be substituted for a small nimble plane. A matched pair of medium sized skew chisels would be my choice, it takes a little pratice not to let the skew dig in, but they're much better at handling endgrain and grain going in multiple directions.

Sharpening is quite a personal thing, I like Oilstones and think they're good to start out on as they're cheap and tough... Before buying lots of different grits of stone etc, remember you don't need a ridiculously sharp edge with mirror polished bevels to do good joinery, so long as the edge is straight and formed a burr at the end of the sharpening process, you're in bussiness!

 

[stoatyboy]

so there you go - more info than you know what to do with!!

i'd go with Cheshirechappies 3rd paragraph for types

as for makes, plenty to choose from and some good ideas

- but do not buy the stanley sharpening stone and jig - it's pants!

let us know how you get on

 

[J_SAMa]

In my opinion, certain designs of chisel are most useful at different sizes...

• Bevel Edged Chisels: are intended for cleaning out dovetail joints and other acute angles, these tend to be quite fine work, so smaller sizes of chisel are going to see the most use. Indeed, even if you make a massive dovetail, you'd only need a bevel edge chisel to clean out the corners, so could still do fine with a little one.
• Firmer Chisels: are workhorses, used for chopping away waste, cutting shallow rebates, splitting waste off tenons and generally being belted with a mallet; these suit medium to larger sizes.

Those are the basic chisels, you can acomplish any of the tasks that you can with more specialised chisels with those two... it just won't be as easy. So...

• Mortice Chisels: suit small to medium sizes, cutting a big mortice is a lot easier if you hog out the waste with an auger or forstner drill-bit then chop it square with a firmer; the mortice chisel is for mortices too narrow for this to be practical... how small you go is entirely down to the work you do, how small a tenon would you want to cut? (it's worth noting that "Sash Mortice" chisels are intended for shallow mortices, and "Pig Sticker" mortice chisels, which are not readily available new, are able to handle much much deeper cuts.)
• Butt Chisels: used for cleaning out joints in awkward places, a smaller size will be more versatile, but it's all relative to the size of the joints you regularly make.
• Paring chisels: suit small and medium sizes, whilst available, a large paring chisel can often be substituted for a small nimble plane. A matched pair of medium sized skew chisels would be my choice, it takes a little pratice not to let the skew dig in, but they're much better at handling endgrain and grain going in multiple directions.

Sharpening is quite a personal thing, I like Oilstones and think they're good to start out on as they're cheap and tough... Before buying lots of different grits of stone etc, remember you don't need a ridiculously sharp edge with mirror polished bevels to do good joinery, so long as the edge is straight and formed a burr at the end of the sharpening process, you're in bussiness!

hi jelly,
can you recommend some good oilstones for me, and what kind of grits do i need for a thorough sharpening and honing? i dont need mirror-like edges but i just want to make sure i get the best out of my chisels. it would be the best if you can recommend some stones that dont wear out very quickly, i dont wanna re-flatten my stone every time i sharpen my chisels
also is there anything i need to take care of when i clean my chisels? will cloth, towel and tissue paper damage the chisels?
Sam

 

[J_SAMa]

My other question is about honing/sharpening stones. i have absolutely no idea what kind of sharpening stones i should buy for sharpening chisels. i think im going to need at least three different stones for different degrees of "aggressiveness". what stones should i buy for coarse sharpening, smoothing and polishing? i know this is a very general and hard to ask question but please just help the new guy here...

thanks and sorry for such basic and general questions
Sam

Hi Sam,

Sorby make very decent mortise chisels http://www.tilgear.info/sections/5698/s ... e_chisels/ and I'd consider investing in diamond sharpening plates with medium, fine and extra fine grits, whereas honing guide I'd suggest an eclipse honing guide if you wish to invest in an inexpensive guide rather than heading down the freehand honing route.

Hi Gaz,
can you recommend a specific model of cheap diamond sharpening plate? now, i know diamonds plates are really good for the job, but again, im pretty new to woodworking and am just not ready to throw a whole lot of money in this
Sam

 

[Jelly]

Sharpening is quite a personal thing, I like Oilstones and think they're good to start out on as they're cheap and tough... Before buying lots of different grits of stone etc, remember you don't need a ridiculously sharp edge with mirror polished bevels to do good joinery, so long as the edge is straight and formed a burr at the end of the sharpening process, you're in bussiness!

hi jelly,
can you recommend some good oilstones for me, and what kind of grits do i need for a thorough sharpening and honing? i dont need mirror-like edges but i just want to make sure i get the best out of my chisels. it would be the best if you can recommend some stones that dont wear out very quickly, i dont wanna re-flatten my stone every time i sharpen my chisels
also is there anything i need to take care of when i clean my chisels? will cloth, towel and tissue paper damage the chisels?
Sam

Norton India Stones are well regarded (link, I can't comment because my oilstone came in waxed paper from a large wooden case under the counter of an old fashioned ironmongers; and i've never needed to replace (or even flatten it)

A 60/600 grit combination stone will be more than adequate for most things; I use 2000 grit abrasive paper on the occasions that I need a really fine edge...

Chisels ought to be pretty resilient... Just be sure to dry them thoroughly and wipe with oil if you have to use water to clean them; with oilstones it's conventional to keep a rag handy to wipe up oil and swarf, ideal for keeping a protective coating on on your chisels.

 

[jamesicus]

Woodworking chisel nomenclature has changed from time to time, region by region and job type by job type. Here are two web pages that at least offer plenty of illustrations - and some explanatory text:

Stanley tang and socket chisels

British Woodworking Chisels

James

 

[GazPal]

Hi Gaz,
can you recommend a specific model of cheap diamond sharpening plate? now, i know diamonds plates are really good for the job, but again, im pretty new to woodworking and am just not ready to throw a whole lot of money in this
Sam

In terms of diamond stones, I'd check those available from DMT and Eze-Lap, but if budget is tight you'll find yourself best served by opting for combination stones such as these by India http://www.axminster.co.uk/norton-india ... rod822727/ . You can suppliment this with other stones of finer/course grit depending on your desired edge quality. :wink:

I'd honestly steer clear of cheap diamond plates, as they often vary greatly in terms of flatness, as well as grit sizes.

I used India oil stones for years and had no complaints, but they are definitely slower cutting than diamond stones.

Read up on stropping and how this can help improve cutting edge quality

 

[marcros]

have a look at diamond stones from http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-C24.aspx

even with the shipping and the tax, you may save a fortune. I was lucky enough to have a colleague in the USA when i wanted some so he bought them back, but the 10" set at $199 is well over £400 here. The customer service was brilliant when I emailed them- couldnt be more helpful!

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi Gaz,
can you recommend a specific model of cheap diamond sharpening plate? now, i know diamonds plates are really good for the job, but again, im pretty new to woodworking and am just not ready to throw a whole lot of money in this
Sam

In terms of diamond stones, I'd check those available from DMT and Eze-Lap, but if budget is tight you'll find yourself best served by opting for combination stones such as these by India http://www.axminster.co.uk/norton-india ... rod822727/ . You can suppliment this with other stones of finer/course grit depending on your desired edge quality. :wink:

I'd honestly steer clear of cheap diamond plates, as they often vary greatly in terms of flatness, as well as grit sizes.

I used India oil stones for years and had no complaints, but they are definitely slower cutting than diamond stones.

Read up on stropping and how this can help improve cutting edge quality

hi gaz,
just a few more questions before i make my decision:
is it okay if i used different types of stones for different stages of sharpening/honing (for example, oilstone for coarse sharpening and waterstone for honing/polishing)?
some expert say its the best to clean chisels by wiping them with a cloth and some "oil". what kind of "oil" are they referring to?
Sam

 

[J_SAMa]

ok, heres my decision for chisels
irwin marples m373 set. it seems favorable even to many very experienced woodworkers
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/irwin-marples ... of-6-p1551

 

[GazPal]

Hi,

3 in 1 oil has served me well for as long as I can remember as a means on lubricating oil stones and rust prevention. Other fine machine oils can be used, as well as mineral oil, but please avoid snake oils.

There's nothing to preventing you from mixing and matching whichever stones you wish to use during your sharpening process, BUT be sure not to use oil with, or have oil contaminate water stones. It can ruin them. Just be sure to de-grease tools before offering them up to water stones.

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi,

3 in 1 oil has served me well for as long as I can remember as a means on lubricating oil stones and rust prevention. Other fine machine oils can be used, as well as mineral oil, but please avoid snake oils.

There's nothing to preventing you from mixing and matching whichever stones you wish to use during your sharpening process, BUT be sure not to us oil with or have oil contaminate water stones. It can ruin them. Just be sure to de-grease tools before offering them up to water stones.

thanks gaz actually, ive decided to go with japanese waterstones only. i just thought waterstones would be less frustrating than oilstones

now here's my decision for sharpening stones:
Naniwa combination stone 120/1000 and Naniwa 3000 honing stone
Sam