Ceramic Floor Tiles

[Dave S]

A diy question this one rather than wood...

After a long hiatus I am going tpo pick up the refurbishment of our en suite. This I gutted some time ago. It has a 3/4 ply floor screwed down at 30cm intervals. Original plan as to have a lino type covering, but this has now changed to ceramic tiles.

I've only ever laid ceramic tiles onto a concrete base, so should I lay something on top of the plywood before laying the ceramic tiles? There seems to be a few products available suggesting they allow for any expansion in the plywood without any cracking in the tiles/grout.

Any recommendations?

Dave

 

[Marky]

I would think that laying onto 3/4 ply is fine.

I use a tiler who has always tiled directly onto ply. He usually go to 1" but you should be fine.

I suppose you could use a product for the expansion, but I doubt there will be any unless the area is huge.

Marky

 

[Slim]

Laying onto ply is absolutley fine. You need to PVA first and make sure you use a flexible additive in your adhesive.

HTH

 

[tiler99]

My recommendation would be based on the size of the floor area.
if it were a small area of about 4m2 i would recommend a 2 part flexible adhesive. This comes in the form of a unit of white latex looking liquid and a rubber crumb powder mix. Added together this will form what looks like a rubber mat. Grouting should be Flexible floor grout.
Its hard to give brand names as each area in the country favours different manufacturers. Bis-Cem, Bal and Larson are the top in my area.
A 2nd method which i approve of is a substance called "No More Ply" Wchich is a cement based 6mm backer board. It is glued with polyurethane glue supplied and screwed. You can then tile on to the boards and take the advantage of using single part flexible floor tile adhesive.
That is the method that i prefer these days if the client is happy with the 6mm added to the floor height.

Laying onto ply or hardboard or mdf is not good enough.
29 years in the ceramic tiling trade.

 

[RogerS]

Why not treat yourself to some electric underfloor heating? Thermostatically controlled, not too expensive to run or instal especially in a smaller area like an ensuite.

 

[Dave S]

Thanks for all your replies. I have heard of people successfully tiling direct onto ply, but I don't want to take any chances. So I'll take heed of Tiler's experienced advice. No More Ply looks like the option of choice, especially since the en suite floor will be lower than the bedroom floor so the 6mm will be no problem at all.

I take it No More Ply is somewhat different to Aquapanel?

Just have to try to find a local supplier now....

Thanks

Dave

 

[tiler99]

For years tiling to 18mm ply was the normal way to do this sort of job. It wasnt 100% successful although i never had any failures.
What i did find was that it was awkward to cut ( Please remember i am carrying tiling tools and not wood working tools) It also added (yes added as the ply was added to the existing floor) and extra 18mm which caused a step into the room.
Marine ply was the sort to use but sometimes the additives that was in the ply could give the grout an orange tint.

No more ply is with all purpose the same as Aqua panel or even Hardibacker, which is sold in Topps Tiles ( Spit ! )
The only difference is that No more ply sell the adhesive to fix the boards to the existing floor and the special ( i dont use them) screws. Why dont i use the screws ?? well according to the literature the give out the screws are only to act ass a clamp while the adhesive dries and add no more security to the floor. So i use dry wall nails as i have a autofeed screwdriver which is great for the job. I am also trying to source some suitable Polyurethane adhesive as i feel they are asking too much for both screws and Adhesive.
As for cutting the boards it is simple, these boards look like asbestos sheets and cutting them is simply a case of scribing them with the tool the sell ( This time fairly cheap and very good) and snapping the boards.


Just found a helpline number for "No More Ply" 0800 0015 092
I am sure the have a website but cant find it at the moment.

 

[Dave S]

Just found a helpline number for "No More Ply" 0800 0015 092
I am sure the have a website but cant find it at the moment.

www.nomoreply.com :lol:

I'll give them a ring in the morning and see if they have a stockist over here. Although they appear to supply direct, I would imagine delivery to to be quite expensive for just a couple of sheets. If it is, I'll probably go the Aquapanel route as it's apparently available in Wickes.

Thanks again for the advice.

Dave

 

[Dibs-h]

Hi,

I did a wetroom for a friend a couple of years ago and we used a product called Wedi - the commercial version of the aquapanel (foam core version) board. Amazing stuff, can be used on walls and will take natural stone.

Have a look at www.wedi.co.uk. Just make sure SWMBO isn't around, 'cos the shower enclosures are stunning.

We just stuck it down over 2 lots of 3/4 ply cross-bonded (straight onto the joists) with what the Yanks would call "Latex modified thinset". Ardex do a range of them here in the UK - not the cheapest, but very good to use. The one we used, could be fully trafficked in about 3 hours - Ardex S20, with S16 grout. 3 years on and it still looks spanking. Can post some WIP\finished pictures if you like?

It cost less than £20 per board - 6mm, 600x2200. We had the local TP bathroom place order it and deliver it for us - got a standard 20% discount as well.

I'd recommend it over the nomoreply - the wedi board is laid on a full combed bed - therefore little\no voids. By the time you bought half a dozen tubes of glue - it would have cost you the same for the Ardex.

Also, if your grout ever cracks - it would prevent water ingress into the substrate.

We also used a range of profiles - external corner beading and internal corner beading (never seen it on the high street) by a company called Schluter - www.schluter.co.uk.

If the increase in floor height - 6mm board plus around 4mm for the adhesive is too much - Schluter do a product called Ditra. It's designed to delink the tiles from the substrate - exactly what you are looking for, and the increase in floor height is minimal.

The Ditra can be bought by the square metre.

Although the products are aimed at the professional end of the market - the end result is as you'd expect - fantastic, but the cost is marginally more that the stuff aimed at the weekend DIY'ers.

Dibs

 

[White House Workshop]

I've done tiles onto ply in a bathroom. The only precaution I took was to use a waterproof adhesive and grout - meaning resin based. More expensive, but no problems with water seepage at all. The floor of the built-in shower is also ceramic tiles (tiny hexagons) using the same resin-based grout with the waste going out in the centre, also grouted in. Never had any problems - and this in a rental property!

The other advantage of the resin based grout is that it doesn't absorb dirt like the regular Portland cement grouts - so it stays nice and white in spite of years of feet walking on it.

 

[Benchwayze]

How do you persuade SWIMBO to have a wet room?:lol:

Dibs, that Wedi looks like a verstile (NPI) product. I bet even I could install a bathroom with that!
Cheers

John