Broken tenon repair

[jimmybigfoot]

Hi guys, I've made some oak doors and have a tenon that was cracked "I didn't realise" glued it all up and it has seperated as in the photo. I've tried Titebonding and clamping but it separated again. I thought about a small Dutchman but I need it invisible really cause it's for a customer :/ anyone have a solution?
Thanks
Jim

 

[ColeyS1]

Have you got a picture with more of the door in shot? It's a job to tell what that part of wood is in relation to the door components. With no tenon at all I'd be concerned if the joint would spread that much when glued.

Coley

 

[jimmybigfoot]

Thanks

 

[ColeyS1]

Is the stile majorly bent then for it to have that big a gap ? Generally the horizontal rail should go right through and the vertical one cut into it- then when the tenons wedged it'll help keep the stiles nice and straight.

Coley

 

[MusicMan]

If you can get it apart, rout it out and make a loose tenon?

 

[RobinBHM]

If the glazing bar is effectively not long enough, I would cut it out, then make a new one which is made in 2 parts, one the thickness of the moulding and the other the depth of the glass rebate. You wont be able to have a tenon on it, but the scribe offers a fair gluing area.

It wont be that strong, but once the door is glazed and beaded, it will never go anywhere.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I like Robin's suggestion. You could take it a step further by making in three layers. The central layer would have the tenons on it, the outer ones would be what you see. It's a lot of work, but it would be very strong and look perfect, and you are in a bit of a spot there, aren't you?

 

[ED65]

If the bar has to be removed would a scarf joint not make it possible to have tenons on both ends? If the new bar is cut from a single board with only a saw kerf of lost wood the continuation of grain might make the joint nearly impossible to see after finish goes on.

 

[Zeddedhed]

If it's for a client I think you should start again.
Selling them a door that's been effectively bodge fixed is a bit naughty IMHO.

 

[ColeyS1]

My way of thinking was along one of 3 ways.

1- your stiles very bent
2- your cross members too short
3- you've somehow managed to force the joint apart to take the picture.

The stiles look atleast 4 inchs so they wouldn't bend very easily without extreme pressure. Till we know if it's 1 2 or 3 it's pointless suggesting how best to remedy it.

If it were me I'd be inclined to follow Zeddedhed 's advice and use it as an important lesson- also imho

Coley

 

[Steve Maskery]

If you do remake it, I'd increase the depth of that bottom rail. The proportions don't look great, unless it is the camera angle.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

If the glazing bar is effectively not long enough, I would cut it out, then make a new one which is made in 2 parts, one the thickness of the moulding and the other the depth of the glass rebate. You wont be able to have a tenon on it, but the scribe offers a fair gluing area.

A slight modification to your suggestion Robin, would be to fashion a slip tenon into each end of the second glass rebated part you described. This would provide extra strength to supplement adhesion between the scribed parts. Slainte.

 

[ED65]

If it's for a client I think you should start again.
Selling them a door that's been effectively bodge fixed is a bit naughty IMHO.

Isn't the mark of a great woodworker supposed to be the ability to hide their mistakes?

Serious point though, it isn't like a good fix here would result in a weaker door so the customer isn't getting shafted.

 

[RobinBHM]

If the glazing bar is effectively not long enough, I would cut it out, then make a new one which is made in 2 parts, one the thickness of the moulding and the other the depth of the glass rebate. You wont be able to have a tenon on it, but the scribe offers a fair gluing area.

A slight modification to your suggestion Robin, would be to fashion a slip tenon into each end of the second glass rebated part you described. This would provide extra strength to supplement adhesion between the scribed parts. Slainte.

Thats certainly a good idea as it builds a joint back in.

The conventional construction would be for the the horizontal rail to run through, which means it would have the same shoulder length as the top and bottom rail. I usually make the mid and top rail mortices are a touch long, make sure the vertical glazing bars are full to length so when clamped it all pulls up tight. Of course it is common to see vertical glazing bars or muntins with joint gaps where they meet mid rails or bottom rails. These rails are usually quite wide and so shrink a bit.

Doing it the way you have done, maybe the shoulder lengths were a bit short which didnt show when it was clamped but sprang open when the clamps were taken off. DAMHIK!

 

[Logger]

If you can fix the mistake and leave a perfect finish and not reduce the strength and integrity of the door, then i don't think you are ripping off the customer. If you hide the error and know that your fix was not as strong, then you need to start again.

I agree with comments that the rails look out of proportion and should wider. Also for that tenon to pull out, it must be cut short. There is no way those styles are going to warp so it should have rock solid once the second style was clamped in and even if the glue failed, it wouldn't move.

Nick