Best joinery technique for making box shelf from oak worktop

[Bikerbear]

Hello Ukworkshop members, first post!

I’m interested to hear people’s thoughts on what might be the best way to join offcuts of oak kitchen workshop in order to create several ‘boxes’ that will be fitted underneath two banks of wall units.

Visually, a mitred joint might look best but lacks strength? I can use pocket holes and screws & glue but would rather not see fixings!

They will measure ~ 1300w x 250h x 300d and be loaded with jars/cups etc so will need to be strong!

I will also thinking of using a track saw to rip the spare worktop to the correct width (just bought an Aldi special and extra track).

Cheers

 

[MikeG.]

Hi Bikerbear, and welcome.

I'm not really picturing what you are trying to achieve. Sorry! Are you suggesting pairs of shelves each with an endpiece at each end? If so, and if the worktop is solid oak 30 or 40mm thick, then I would simply cut some dovetails. Obviously the tails would be on the vertical boards, and the pins on the horizontal. You could also use a box (AKA finger) joint. The other way would be to move the end pieces inboard and do some through wedged mortise and tenons, say, or make the end pieces longer and have the shelves tenoned through them, with the upstand at the top being useful for preventing things falling off the end of the shelf.

 

[Bikerbear]

Thanks for the quick response Mike! I tried to include a link to an image but as I’m new it won’t let me!

Imagine a box without a top or bottom, turned onto its side and secured to the underside of a kitchen cabinet of the same length and depth... hope that makes sense?

The worktop is 40mm, the kind made of glued oak strips.

I was unsure about which joints I could cut as the worktop is made from multiple pieces of oak rather than one?

I like your idea of the end pieces being longer and using tenons; in my head this seems a good idea if the bottom length is to be load bearing. Will be my first tenon so will need to practice first!

 

[Peterm1000]

I think the first question is - how good are your woodworking skills?

If the answer is very good, then dovetails would be nice. If not very good, then I would suggest doing something simple well rather than something complicated badly. It's also a question of how much equipment you have. Mortice and tenons or dovetails suggest sash clamps which you may not have.

That piece of worktop is going to be heavy and I guess you are suggesting attaching it to the bottom of the cupboards rather than the wall. I think you will want to have at least one upright in the middle or it may say - even at that thickness. I think the simplest way to do this is to ignore the mitre idea (as you need to have a super-accurate saw to get that exactly right) and use a butt joint with several large countersunk screws with the heads covered by plugs. If you use the same kind of wood, are careful to match the colour and align the grain they are nearly invisible. I would then put a simple back on the box as that will give it a lot of strength

 

[Bikerbear]

Thanks Mike

My woodworking skills are not well tested. I’ve so far been a glue and screw guy. I’ve got a decent table saw, dewalt kit (mitre saw, circular saw and drill/impact) and a small selection of chisels. I would like to invest in a router too but I am a beginner. I know I can get good results if I take my time and am accurate, but have never attempted anything other than very simple joints! Am happy to invest in a few bits of kit along the way... I have a few plug cutters but I’ve never used them!

To clarify, I am thinking of some invisible fixings to the wall behind, using expoxy adhesive to secure threaded bar in the wall and to pre drilled holes in the back of the side pieces...

Hadn’t considered the shelf sagging, I wonder if I could retrofit a middle vertical piece of this became a problem?

 

[LBCarpentry]

Glue and screw would be fine but that thing is going to weigh a tonne! You need to think of a suitable long term way this thing is going to float under the cabinets. I wouldn’t have it fixed to the cabinet underside that’s for sure...

Better to use L brackets and fix to the (masonry) wall. Can Even hide the bracket face in the plaster - just skim over with polyfiller and re-paint. Also, if you use L brackets it should stop any sag if you put 2 in the center (top and bottom) so no need for central support

 

[Neil Swann]

1st post as well. Why not consider using floating shelf fixings and housing dados. I used that method on some 8x2 to achieve a similar objective. Disclaimer my joints were rubbish but some 2 part filler disguised that somewhat. Mitres might work if you used the fixings top and bottom. IMHO.
Neil
PS wife was pleased anyway.

 

[thetyreman]

what's the thickness of the oak stock? it makes a massive difference to the weight, most worktops I've seen would be way to thick and bulky for shelving

 

[Bikerbear]

Thanks all.

Glue and screw would be fine but that thing is going to weigh a tonne! You need to think of a suitable long term way this thing is going to float under the cabinets. I wouldn’t have it fixed to the cabinet underside that’s for sure...

Better to use L brackets and fix to the (masonry) wall. Can Even hide the bracket face in the plaster - just skim over with polyfiller and re-paint. Also, if you use L brackets it should stop any sag if you put 2 in the center (top and bottom) so no need for central support

I was hoping to avoid glue n screw although could countersink and plug the screws. I was thinking of fixing it to the wall cabinets but only as an additional measure; I would want to be sure it was able to support itself first. It's actually timber frame so no masonry to fix to; I could try locating the studs... Didn't consider brackets and hiding them, will do some drawings I think!

1st post as well. Why not consider using floating shelf fixings and housing dados. I used that method on some 8x2 to achieve a similar objective. Disclaimer my joints were rubbish but some 2 part filler disguised that somewhat. Mitres might work if you used the fixings top and bottom. IMHO.
Neil
PS wife was pleased anyway.

As long as the other half is pleased!! I will explore floating shelf fixings, hopefully I'm allowed to upload some sketches for you.

what's the thickness of the oak stock? it makes a massive difference to the weight, most worktops I've seen would be way to thick and bulky for shelving

40mm. This is pretty heavy stuff, but aesthetically the box shelving looks great (in the Howdens catalogue at least!)

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Bikerbear,
Welcome to the forum.

I would suggest dovetails as per MikeG.
But the thickness; I always found dovetailing much over 20mm thick material to be; not a walk in the park. Even now after all this time. Dovetails should look fine of course, and I hope you choose them.

In your position I'd buy a nice softwood plank of the right thickness, and make yourself a few pairs of dovetailed bookends. You will be surprised at the difference between the first pair and the last! Then you can start your case.

I made a book case like this in the 1960's; not quite the same thickness mind. It was fine. Just that the wall was a but iffy, and it wouldn't hold screws well! Gravity took charge eventually. (hammer)
Best of luck.

Cheers
John

PS . Custard has done a feature on cutting a dovetail, with a mitred front edge, which always looks good. It should help you.

 

[thetyreman]

no reason why you couldn't just use butt joints that are screwed in place, it depends what's going on the shelf, personally though I'd go with mitred dovetails, once you've got normal dovetails down they aren't that difficult, if you never try you'll never know.

 

[thomashenry]

I've made similar shelving in the past, but from scaffolding board. I used stopped housing joints, half the thickness of the stock.

 

[Benchwayze]

I think Mikeg's idea of through M&Ts, would be strong and look well. With a nice chamfered up-stand above the top; maybe angled wedges? But here I go; making a straightforward design, into a work of over-engineered fantasy. I have form for that! But yes, I do like the idea; albeit it would mean fixing the box to a wall.

Incidentally Bikerbear, I need a work surface for my art-room'. So, where did you source your oak worktops. Online?

Cheers

John (hammer)

 

[johnnyb]

firstly are they flat. if there good then mitre would be my choice its tricky and the joinery can be a pain. maybe biscuits or splines. but its the best looking. these worktops are like bell iron btw. failing that id do glue and screws. i ve made housings with through tenons and they are strong but those worktops are bullet!