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Bathroom Electrics?

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Dibs-h

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Hi

I've gutted our house bathroom back to bare brick walls and joists and now starting to build it back. The plumbing is almost finished and now the attention turns to the electrics - just wondered whether shaver sockets (only 1) should run off the upstairs ring main or run off the lighting circuit? Either or? Same goes for the heated mirror backing (assuming its not part of the bathroom cabinet thingy but separate? And also the extractor? Initial inclination is not to run them off the lighting, but a fused spur off the ring main. If a fused spur is the way to go - 1 fused spur radially\serially connecting them all or 3 separate ones?

Sorry if it seems a little dense\obvious.

Cheers

Dibs
 

Paulg

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The bathroom is a notifiable area according to Part P regs. In general, DIY in notifiable areas is a no-no. Please don't take this the wrong way, but asking those type of questions means you should not be doing it.

I did some DIY electrics approx 6 years ago (just extending a ring). Trying to sell now and the hassle I have from the lawyers because of it is crazy.
 

Dibs-h

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Paulg":2mn4lw2k said:
The bathroom is a notifiable area according to Part P regs. In general, DIY in notifiable areas is a no-no. Please don't take this the wrong way, but asking those type of questions means you should not be doing it.

I did some DIY electrics approx 6 years ago (just extending a ring). Trying to sell now and the hassle I have from the lawyers because of it is crazy.
Cheers Paul - I understand what you are saying, but the house is undergoing serious renovation and building regs are involved\checking, so don't see why one could not do it. Appreciate there maybe differences of opinion, but if one doesn't ask questions, one isn't going to learn ultimately.

Thanks

Dibs
 

Hudson Carpentry

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Extractor and shaver socket to run off the lighting, both with an FCU unless the socket comes with a light, switch and fuse built in. The fans normally require a permanent live and a switched where the shaver socket will only be permanent live.

Heated mirror, never seen one before nor wired one in but I suspect there very low wattage and would want to be turned on with the lights just as the fan would so again lighting circuit with its own FCU. I suspect this would only require the switched live.

Two things I should point out is in bathrooms there are Zones which define what spec and what electrical items can be located and that bathroom electrics require someone that holds the Part P qualification to undertake the work.
 

EssexChris

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Hi,

As others have said bathrooms come under part p, but as you are dealing with building control already may be worth speaking to them as different areas vary how they deal with the inspection and testing, but you can do the work and then have it tested.

Without wanting to go off topic to far, the new part P related world is good in theory and can theoretically save lives. But lots of trades have jumped on the band wagon and just learnt enough to pass the tests and get qualified. I have seen some terrible work all signed off and approved.

Back to your question, if your shaver socket is the type that incorporates a double-wound isolating transformer. Then this can be fed off the lighting circuit, the same goes for the heated mirror. Providing that all wiring is rated to the 6 or 10Amp lighting circuit breaker. The extractor should have an isolator in the circuit, if this is placed above the door outside you wont have to worry about any zone issues. Any circuits in a bathroom must now be fed via a RCD.

Chris.
 

Lons

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Hudson Carpentry":25w7shrj said:
Extractor and shaver socket to run off the lighting, both with an FCU unless the socket comes with a light, switch and fuse built in. The fans normally require a permanent live and a switched where the shaver socket will only be permanent live.

Heated mirror, never seen one before nor wired one in but I suspect there very low wattage and would want to be turned on with the lights just as the fan would so again lighting circuit with its own FCU. I suspect this would only require the switched live.

Two things I should point out is in bathrooms there are Zones which define what spec and what electrical items can be located and that bathroom electrics require someone that holds the Part P qualification to undertake the work.
+ 1

Got to be careful Dibs as not all building inspectors are willing (or qualified) to inspect / certify the wiring. In fact if you cover it with ducting / plasterboard they won't have anything to do with it.

You can find out the zones if you do a google search but specific areas must be transformed, low voltage supply and possibly splashproof.

Shaver socket - buy a good quality one as some of the cheapos are very poor and potentially unsafe. Not worth the risk for a few quid.

lighted mirror - I assume you mean one similar to mine which has small flourescent tubes, mine has 4, behand the glass providing both light and heat for de-misting. Mine has pucker isolating switch located outside. a built in rocker switch and is on the lighting circuit via a fused spur outside the bathroom.

Fans are likewise again with isolating switch outside and permanent live feed for the timer.

Bob
 

Dibs-h

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Cheers Chaps - already aware of the "zones". Going to have a think about where stuff will be going and what to buy.

Cheers

Dibs
 

andersonec

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Get a sparky to do it, not only is there other things to be taken into consideration but have you thought about earthing for sink, bath etc. This is not the sort of stuff to scrimp on.

Andy
 

Hudson Carpentry

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Im not 100% but didn't the 17th (or maybe 18th if its out) state that bonding to sinks and baths is no longer required if you have a dual rcd board?
 

paulm

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Isn't it the case that lighting circuits are usually unprotected by the rcd in a consumer unit, so that the lights stay on for safety if something else trips the rcd ?

In that case wouldn't it be safest to have shaver socket and heated mirror run from the rcd protected ring main circuits ?

Cheers, Paul
 

Doug B

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EssexChris":plxtp2lk said:
Any circuits in a bathroom must now be fed via a RCD.

That`s exactly what my sparky does now on the bathroom refurbs I do, he installs a separate circuit for the bathroom covered by an RCD, makes it easy to test & is compliant.
 

Hudson Carpentry

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paulm":1ns3jmgv said:
Isn't it the case that lighting circuits are usually unprotected by the rcd in a consumer unit, so that the lights stay on for safety if something else trips the rcd ?

In that case wouldn't it be safest to have shaver socket and heated mirror run from the rcd protected ring main circuits ?

Cheers, Paul
When the 17th edition came out the new regs stated that both sides of the Dual CU should now be RCD protected. Hence the need for Dual RCD boards.

As there are two RCD's if the sockets side blow the lights still stay on unaffected but are still RCD protected.
 

Dibs-h

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Yes - will be getting a sparky in to test most of the electrics - i.e. the whole house, will just leave stuff unconnected - i.e. not live and then get him to connect. Just wanted\needed to know so can run the cabling to roughly where it will connect to either the ring\lighting circuit - or leave loads of cable on the end so he can decide later. Would be very difficult once everything is tiled. :shock:

The advice is much appreciated.

Dibs
 

paulm

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Hudson Carpentry":1tbly5tm said:
paulm":1tbly5tm said:
Isn't it the case that lighting circuits are usually unprotected by the rcd in a consumer unit, so that the lights stay on for safety if something else trips the rcd ?

In that case wouldn't it be safest to have shaver socket and heated mirror run from the rcd protected ring main circuits ?

Cheers, Paul
When the 17th edition came out the new regs stated that both sides of the Dual CU should now be RCD protected. Hence the need for Dual RCD boards.

As there are two RCD's if the sockets side blow the lights still stay on unaffected but are still RCD protected.
Didn't know that, makes sense though, always thought it was a bit sub-optimal not having the lighting circuits protected !

Cheers, Paul
 

Dibs-h

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Would it be a bad idea to supplementary bond the pipe work in the bathroom?

Cheers

Dibs
 

RogerS

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Dibs-h":cylymjju said:
Would it be a bad idea to supplementary bond the pipe work in the bathroom?

Cheers

Dibs
Dibs.....there is so much rubbish talked about bonding. Go to the askthetrades forum for the best honest and sensible advice.

Roger
 

Dibs-h

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Cheers Rog. Had a look and a general read up on it too. Also spoke to my sparky mate and will be cross bonding the pipework in the bathroom tomorrow evening. Got the cable, clamps and a pack of lugs (for the 1st one). Hopefully have the CU swapped out later this summer as it's a wired fuse one. :shock:

Lord! I'm shattered! Doing this bathroom feels like hard labour and never ending! :roll: Got the 18mm ply down today only to find out one side wall is out of square. Bloody annoying and tiring moving almost full sheets around by yourself. Looking forward to this time next week, when I should be tiling! :D

Cheers

Dibs
 

Dibs-h

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RogerS":354s1843 said:
Please tell me you're not doing this :shock:

I think he forgot the sink brackets! :lol:

Nah Rog - all the pipework in our house is copper (soldered)! :lol:

Dibs
 

flanajb

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I did some electrics some time ago in the bathroom and decided that it would be really handy to have a twin socket just above the bath so that I could watch tv in the bath. The shelf that the TV sits on could do with some better fixings as it has started sagging recently.

Feel free to pm me if you would like any further electrical advice.
 
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