Arrrrggghhhhhhhhh! Walk in shops and...

[woof]

Howdens. I walk in, wait ... are you trade? No ... well come back with your builder!

How to lose trade part 1.

Alsford timber. I pop in to look at their offcuts, pick a few, and pick 2 at £8 , where one is a good third smaller. Take em both to the counter .... "do you want to give me a pound or 2 off the smaller one?" What do I get in reply? No - I can sell it for that price, and if I wanted to machine it I would get far more.... So i says, well I'm gonna machine it so I'm not interested, you can put the other one back.
What is it with these traders? I have great great respect with my local Covers merchants, treat me civily and with respect ... certainly don't get treated like an silly person.

SO much for a nice relaxing day off.
Rant over .. unless there are representatives of thoseplaces on here.

 

[woof]

Ok so ... anyone know where I can buy kitchen carcasses? Reasonable quality, just the carcasses as I will do proper woodwork making the doors?
Thanks - but don't say Howdens!

 

[Philly]

B+Q?
Philly

 

[woof]

B+Q?
Philly

Not sure if you are being serious or not .. so went over to have a look and guess what ...

Due to essential maintenance diy.com is currently unavailable

 

[northwind]

Ikea.. if you don't mind them being chipboard.

You can buy whatever bits you want of the shelf, carcasses, shelves, hinges, interior fittings etc, everything is priced individually.

My only criticism of their cabinets is there is no utility space behind the cabinet for pipes or cables.



Daniel

 

[chippy1970]

Woof, Im sorry but I agree with the Howdens thing it is TRADE only I think people like my self in the Trade who spend a lot per year should get discount for that fact. I dont know how muc you spend per year but if its not a lot then you have to make do with using the sheds.

The second bit regarding poor service thats not right but thats what you find in large builders yards now they pay peanuts and get ............

PS its easy to open a Howdens account anyway if you really want to buy from them just make your own company up and print your own letter head up and go in there. They do a credit check or you can just open a cash account and pay as you go upto you.

 

[Daven]

If you can get a Howdens account or a friendly builder who already has an account (as we did), I recommend them - less than half price of exactly the same units in MFI. The quality is good and they were already made up rather than flat pack!

Dave

 

[Dibs-h]

......your own company up .....

Never had a problem with such places - but having a Ltd Co certainly does help and usually when I go in I'll be in my workpants, etc. and never been asked the question"are you trade?" Then again the normal DIY'er doesn't walk in wearing Snickers etc. looking as if they've just come from a building site! :lol:

Dibs

 

[Mcluma]

personaly...

I would go witht he b&q ones, philly is right

howdens ones are sh*t, i think howdens is sh*t

 

[studders]

For the cost of them I think the B+Q ones are rubbish. I ended up having to re-inforce them to make them stable and the Panels didn't line up properly. Next time I will definitely make my own.

 

[woof]

Woof, Im sorry but I agree with the Howdens thing it is TRADE only I think people like my self in the Trade who spend a lot per year should get discount for that fact. I dont know how muc you spend per year but if its not a lot then you have to make do with using the sheds.

It's not the trade only bit I find objectionable, but rather the sneering manner of the youngster behind the counter. Funnily enough there was a builder who was next to me, and on the way out he was saying they must be doing well to turn trade away.

How much - well I'm sure not as much as many of you. I still spend I guess £2-3k a year on wood/building stuff, and Howdens certainly won't get a penny. Not that how much should bear any relation to service - it certainly doesn't in my real job.

The second bit regarding poor service thats not right but thats what you find in large builders yards now they pay peanuts and get ............

True but in my local ones, Covers, Chandlers, they have always been most courteous. Indeed they suggested I opened a trade account with one of those - as I have

PS its easy to open a Howdens account anyway if you really want to buy from them just make your own company up and print your own letter head up and go in there. They do a credit check or you can just open a cash account and pay as you go upto you.[/quote

]
Thanks for the tip - but I guess on this occassion - and for the reasons above - I'm out!

 

[woof]

personaly...

I would go witht he b&q ones, philly is right

howdens ones are sh*t, i think howdens is sh*t

Thanks for that - popped into B&Q tonight and the better quality ones were not as bad as I suspected they would be. Ok they clearly don't feel like oak, but - if I'm not prepared to do them myself - have no choice. I was originally planning to buy in veneered ply to build the carcasses from scratch, but SWMBO wasn't prepared to wait "2 years for you to finish them" - hence my reluctant adventure into carcass buying

Mcluma - I have to agree. From hence forth, a number 2 will become I need to have a Howden.

 

[Eric The Viking]

... It's not the trade only bit I find objectionable..

I do.

In the USA it is illegal to offer different terms to different customers, provided they do similar amounts of business with the company in question. So a builder can't get 'trade' if they only do a small amount of business, but a private individual can, by law, if they place a big enough order.

It seems fair to me, and I think it should be the same here.

In any case, wholesalers and trade-only dealers in the building trades often grossly abuse the end customer with their pricing. I wanted some unusual (but not rare) mains bulbs the other day, so went to my local wholesaler, quite prepared to pay for a wholesale quantity. I was 'offered' them at more than double the rate of our nearest ironmonger. I didn't find out if this was the 'retail' rate or just them being awkward, but the salesperson was rude and unhelpful so I just walked out. Time was when the same company was pleased to give a good discount, because I was in a related industry - not these days.

Generally, even with 'trade' discount, they're not even close to the prices of Screwfix and Toolstation. They got away with this in the boom years because end users didn't notice the high price of fittings etc., as they were lost in the overall costs of building work. But it's a rip-off nonetheless, and now they're likely to be called out on it.

There was no other customer in there when I called in - the assistant was reading the paper. The place is never busy, even in the early mornings. I don't think it'll be there much longer with that attitude.

</rant>

 

[BradNaylor]

Ok so ... anyone know where I can buy kitchen carcasses? Reasonable quality, just the carcasses as I will do proper woodwork making the doors?
Thanks - but don't say Howdens!

If you do a little research you should be able to find out where the local kitchen shops buy their cabinets from. Generally, most independent kitchen retailers buy their doors from one source, wirework and ironmongery etc from another, and the carcasses from a local specialist manufacturer.

I don't know your area but I have at least 4 kitchen carcass manufacturers within 20 miles. All are set up with state of the art computerised machinery and supply carcasses at around 1/2 - 2/3 of Howden's cheapest trade prices. The one I use is also happy to do special sizes at a token extra charge. There must be a similar pace somewhere near you.

Don't be sniffy about 'chipboard' carcasses. Melamine faced chipboard is an ideal material for making kitchen carcasses from provided they are constructed properly and sit above the floor on plastic legs to avoid water ingress. Look for 18mm backs and a proper service gap for pipes and cables. Ikea cabinets do not have this and should be avoided.

I haven't made kitchen carcasses for a long time, preferring to spend my time on the doors and end panels etc. Sure, plywood would be 'stronger' than MFC, but MFC is plenty strong enough - as well as being far more practical and easy to keep clean in use.

Cheers
Brad

 

[Anonymous]

What Brad said.

I have being my own research in the last couple of days on buying carcases in then making my own doors and face frames.

I cannot make the carcases for what i can buy them for.

Howdens aren't the best by a long shot but they do offer convenience.

since i set up my business 8 weeks ago, I started buying hinges, handles drawer runners from howdens as it was so convenient for me.

Now i don't go anywhere near them, I have certain suppliers for different products, even though each and every one of them bar a few a do the same products.

 

[Lons]

Just my twopennerth!

Howdens:
I have a legitimate trade account at Howdens and occasionally fit their kitchens which whilst not top quality, represent reasonable value for my end customer.
I can send my customers into the branch to look at the carcases and doors in the flesh and I sometimes use Howdens design service which entails a visit to my customer premises by their estimator.

I would be VERY upset if Howdens gave my customer prices as I have to make a profit on materials and therefore mark up the units.
I would add that the "list" prices and huge perceived discounts are fictional however and I take the base prices and add a % plus labour and other materials etc to give a competitive quote.

As an ex branch manager for a semi-finished plastics company who supplied to trade and retail, I would state that the amount of time spent "advising" retail customers for relatively small purchases was out of all proportion to trade who knew what they wanted and in decent volume meant that in real terms, we never made profit from retail sales even though at higher prices to reflect the effort expended.

There are enough big sheds around which offer builders merchant prices and screwfix etc for small stuff, to satisfy retail in my opinion.

There is nothing worse for a busy tradesman to be in a queue at a merchant to collect urgent materials whilst the sales staff are tied up at the counter with a husband and wife who can't decide which type of fence to buy or how much they need :roll:

Sorry if my comments upset anyone on here - not my intention but whilst I'm still working (counting down the days), my time costs money.

Bob

 

[Anonymous]

Wren Kitchens

http://www.wrenkitchens.com/price-comparison

Howdens at bottom of page.

Koolwabbit

 

[Eric The Viking]

Just my twopennerth!

There is nothing worse for a busy tradesman to be in a queue at a merchant to collect urgent materials whilst the sales staff are tied up at the counter with a husband and wife who can't decide which type of fence to buy or how much they need :roll:

That's B(luddy)-Queue, not a proper trade outlet!

Our local nut & bolt factor sends 'em packing if they don't know what they want. I usually go to Toolstation with an exact list, and spend my time waiting on small builders (who don't know what they want). It's the fault of the merchants - they think they can make more with a retail offering, but aren't set up for it.

The US pattern means you pay people for the value they add, not a markup just for the sake of it. If you spec. and source and organise the materials, I should be paying you, but if, like B+thing, it's the same 'quality' stuff no matter who buys it, and the same quantities with the same service offering, why should I pay more than someone else?

Sorry if my comments upset anyone on here - not my intention but whilst I'm still working (counting down the days), my time costs money.

Bob

They don't upset -- you should be properly paid for your time, experience and expertise. I object to the markup-just-because brigade, be it the supplier or the tradesperson.

Cheers,

E.

 

[Lons]

Just my twopennerth!

There is nothing worse for a busy tradesman to be in a queue at a merchant to collect urgent materials whilst the sales staff are tied up at the counter with a husband and wife who can't decide which type of fence to buy or how much they need :roll:

That's B(luddy)-Queue, not a proper trade outlet!

Our local nut & bolt factor sends 'em packing if they don't know what they want. I usually go to Toolstation with an exact list, and spend my time waiting on small builders (who don't know what they want). It's the fault of the merchants - they think they can make more with a retail offering, but aren't set up for it.

The US pattern means you pay people for the value they add, not a markup just for the sake of it. If you spec. and source and organise the materials, I should be paying you, but if, like B+thing, it's the same 'quality' stuff no matter who buys it, and the same quantities with the same service offering, why should I pay more than someone else?

Sorry if my comments upset anyone on here - not my intention but whilst I'm still working (counting down the days), my time costs money.

Bob

They don't upset -- you should be properly paid for your time, experience and expertise. I object to the markup-just-because brigade, be it the supplier or the tradesperson.

Cheers,

E.

Whilst I agree with some of your comments, we aren't going concur on all of it Eric.

This isn't the USA and I can't comment on the pricing policies there but here we used to have "list" prices which are now "suggested retail" and a trader, dealer, middleman whoever can buy at discounted rates usually according to volume of order or volume over a period, say p.a. and sell on at a profit whether or not he adds value to the item.

That's business - It's the way it works and I see nothing wrong with that :!:

The fact is however that anyone can buy at discount if they wish, there are enough suppliers in competition to ensure that if you can't get it one place then you can somewhere else.

I have a trade account at B&Q which I use if I need to get urgent stuff in the evening as they're open late. I don't get better prices than joe public, (there was a small retrospective volume discount running though) and their prices are often better than a merchant on mainstream items.

Any supplier has the right to sell to you or not and if it says "trade only" then that should be what it is.

Your last sentence (US pattern) I understand but that argument if carried forward might perhaps suggest that any particular product should cost the same wherever you buy it.
That would be ludicrous IMO as it stifles competition and amounts to price fixing.

Mark-up-brigade
I don't like that either - just vote with my feet - plenty of other sources!

cheers

Bob

 

[TheTiddles]

I do find it funny when on the rare occasions I have been asked if I am "trade". "Why yes I am as a matter of fact, I'm a jigolo!" does this make some difference to my ability to buy low value materials from you? "Oh, you meant do I go to work in a vest?"

It's rather like a snotty attitude from a sales assistant/till-tart in a shop who cant afford the things they sell but somehow feels it's ok to have an attitude with me who can.

Vote with your feet, justice comes in the end

Aidan