Anyone know what's happened to Liogier Rasps?

[FenceFurniture]

Trying to place a large order (~€2000) with Liogier, but it's not so easy these days. I just cannot get an email response from them. I have a few addresses that I've tried, Facebook, Skype. Nothing works.

Anyone else had difficulties, or know what is going on?

 

[pedder]

Don't know, did you try phone?

What happened to this saw file thing BTW? Did you find a maker?
I happen to test a few new made (from Portugal and F. Dick) and quality really goes downhill.


Cheers
Pedder

 

[FenceFurniture]

Funnily enough I have just had contact (minutes after posting).

I also discussed new files. They will not be made by Liogier, but negotiations are continuing (out of my control at the moment).

I know those F.Dick files Pedder. They have a black ink logo - straight from India. The only Portugal made files I have seen were Bahco, which seem pretty reasonable (but compared to what.....)

Were they Tome Feteira?

 

[pedder]

Hi Greg,

good to know. Yes, Tome Feteira and their austrian label.
But beside the low quality of the teeth and the surface, they
started to magnetise after a few strokes and magnbetised the
blade to so file shavings clogged everywhere.

The seem to hold the teeth a bit better than F.Dick, but not much.

Realy frustrating day I had. Tome feteira was my last hope.

The only good saw file I've bought in the last 2 years where old stock, needlefiles or japanese style.

Cheers
Pedder

 

[FenceFurniture]

Realy frustrating day I had. Tome feteira was my last hope.

The only good saw file I've bought in the last 2 years where old stock, needlefiles or japanese style.

I'm afraid that is the truth and the reality. Unless we can get some new ones made then needle files will be it, for decent files. Old stock will not last forever of course. Japanese style are the wrong shape for Western saws, but they make a helluva file.

I received some prototype 60° files made in Japan, and they were good strong teeth, and durable, but the language problem is big.

 

[pedder]

Japanese style are the wrong shape for Western saws, but they make a helluva file.

Maybe I will have to learn to file japanese style teeth. Shouldn't be that complicated.

Greg, it is really a relief, that you care for the sawfiles. Wish you all success!!

Cheers
Pedder

 

[swagman]

It was not overly difficult to recognise there would be a shortage of good quality taper files. I purchased these full boxes of NOS Nicholson taper files from the USA about 5 years ago. A rare find knowadays.

Stewie;

 

[pedder]

It was not? I bought very well made F. Dick (Grobet) files since 2008. just two years ago they had a quality loss.
How could you forcast, that they outsource saw file making? They have been the last one and could have taken any price..

Cheers Pedder

Today 90% of my filing is done with needlefiles slwoer but better finish.

 

[D_W]

It's a bummer that you guys can't get bahco files reasonable, and a bummer that bahco doesn't make xx slim files.

Aside from the taper of the bahco files being a little less than some of the vintage files I have, I literally have never used a file that is smoother or files longer than what bahco is making now. (most of my NOS files are simonds and nicholson, and they are good files, but not better than the bahcos).

I guess the other side of that same issue is that if you're filing a lot of small teeth, it's difficult to appreciate the bahcos because of the lack of xx slim files. But for carpenter's saws, they are superb, and not that expensive here as long as you're willing to buy 10 (and I guess from isaac and others, not that expensive in general).

Anyone coming to market to make files will first need to get past the fact that the mid sized bahcos are spectacular for $5 each, and the larger maybe more like $7-$8, but still spectacular.

 

[bugbear]

I guess the other side of that same issue is that if you're filing a lot of small teeth, it's difficult to appreciate the bahcos because of the lack of xx slim files.

Take a look at Pedder's saws - he needs fine files!

BugBear

 

[D_W]

I guess the other side of that same issue is that if you're filing a lot of small teeth, it's difficult to appreciate the bahcos because of the lack of xx slim files.

Take a look at Pedder's saws - he needs fine files!

BugBear

Yes, I agree. This is another point where when we're discussing hand tools, people who use mostly hand tools are going to have a different perspective than those who use hand tools only for joinery. (for example, I will refresh a rip carpenter saw much more often than a dovetail saw - the lack of good small files hasn't caught up to me because I'm likely to use one every few years whereas someone making or refurbishing a lot of small saws will be using substandard files or spending for needle files).

One other side comment - I suspect that regardless of how inept cooper tools may be in noticing quality defects with their original runs of mexican nicholson files, their flat files seem to be improving some and it may be that the taper saw files will improve in quality. Time will tell. Buying files is now like buying appliances (which seem to switch quality like a lightswitch at this point) - you can't assume much if you haven't bought in a while - certainly can't buy the same thing you already have and assume that it will be as good.

 

[Corneel]

Bahco also has needle files. I bought some for making a few dovetail saws and had no problems with them.

 

[Biliphuster]

I have filed a few saws (though obviously many fewer than the experts here) and found the commonly available (in the UK) Bahco and Nicholson files more than sufficient. Perhaps I have just never used the good stuff to know the difference.

Where can one buy saw files by the dozen? If it works out cheaper I can see myself getting a lifetime supply in a single package.

I have some 6 inch three square files which are obviously much thicker than an xx slim saw file but I can't see why they wouldn't work? The bottom of the gullets may be rounded but is that a problem?

 

[FenceFurniture]

I have some 6 inch three square files which are obviously much thicker than an xx slim saw file but I can't see why they wouldn't work? The bottom of the gullets may be rounded but is that a problem?

There are some terminology clashes there. A 3-Sq file is an Engineers file (i.e. double cut) which does not have the edges cut. Therefore the edges are sharp and these files are for getting into corners to clean up. This means that they will not yield a rounded gullet. Also, because they are double cut they do not produce as smooth a finish.

A 3-Sq file is 60° triangular in profile, but not all triangular files are 3-Sq. One is a subset of the other. The width of the face does not matter as long as it is >= twice the tooth face. It is the corner sharpness that determines how small the teeth are that it can be used on. Smaller teeth, sharper gullets.

 

[swagman]

http://www.cullmantimes.com/community/n ... 893cf.html

 

[FenceFurniture]

I have read that the Nich files made in the USA towards the end weren't much cop either. Don't know how true that was. The point being that if it is true then "Made in USA" for those latter day files means nothing. That then can create potential problems for people buying NOS files marked "Made in USA". How do you know when they were produced? Perhaps the packaging may offer a clue.

 

[swagman]

Unless you can provide some written evidence on that claim Brett, its unsupported rubbish.

regards Stewie.

 

[FenceFurniture]

Don't know how true that was.

There's a caveat there Stewie.

 

[D_W]

I've found the recent US made nicholsons to be nicely made files. Their proportions are constant and they're relatively durable. Twice in the last few months I used two heavy taper files to fully cut 2 3/8 teeth per inch 1095 plates four feet long.

I find new bahcos to be a little bit better, but I vaguely recall one of the original saw doctors preferring portuguese bahcos to american made files when both were available, anyway.