Any electric oven experts in here?

[Spectric]

It is a balance where each device has a role to play, the Ninja does 85% of our cooking and we accept the oven still has a role to play. For all you flesh eaters just think of how you would get some big turkey into a Ninja !

 

[Dibs-h]

When you look at the auto industry that has also gone down the money spining route, now we have a system failure light that allows a garage to charge you just to perform the diagnostic's and give you a rough idea of the possible fault without any Certainty of a first time fix, a nice open ended income.

Some years back - an independent specialist (advertising themselves as former dealership master technicians with all the framed certificates) diagnosed a 5 series with a noisy chain (they do need replacing despite the "sealed for life BS") and proceeded to change it. Only to fire it back up and it sounded the same. He dropped the sump only to find #6's big end bearing in shards in the sump and when he took the big end cap off - the crank deeply scored.

Recommended suggestion was a short block. A lot of research and messing about - a replacement crank, 1 rod and a whole load of expensive bits, the thing was back together and ran perfectly.

How he couldn't tell the difference between a big end knocking and a "loose" (well not actually) timing chain is beyond me. To cap it off, whilst the head was off - they decided not to pull out the glow plugs but attempt that when the head was back on and lo and behold, they wouldn't come out without a high chance of snapping.

The mate - who's car it was - ended up paying no labour for the rebuild but still wasn't happy.

I'll never forget what a chap I spoke to whilst "researching" which cranks fit what engine (no part nbrs on the cranks) - "Master Techs are only good for changing the oil and filter."

 

[Spectric]

How he couldn't tell the difference between a big end knocking and a "loose" (well not actually) timing chain is beyond me. T

They no longer teach automotive engineering in depth and the so called technicians rely far to heavily on the diagnostic's to tell them what to do. When I worked on cars we only had diagnostic machines like the Sun tuner that looked something like this

you hooked up to the plug leads, coil and distributor and we had to interpret the results to decide what was wrong, we could listen to an engine and tell the difference between small end rattle and crank knock because we actually worked on engines and did not just replace as a unit, we were engineers and not fitters.

 

[Dibs-h]

When I worked on cars we only had diagnostic machines like the Sun tuner that looked something like this

View attachment 148153

Must be 30 or so years since I saw one of those. Probably around the time I had a dwell meter.

 

[Jacob]

When you have a shortage of skilled labour you start to fumble around in the bottom of the barrel. This is the modern way, get a degree in something and you can now do any job, it has been a total disaster for the UK ever since we lost our technical colleges and shoved every Tom Dick and Harry into university without thinking of future needs. This is one reason why we now have such a problem with nurse shortages, a nurse does not need a degree because the main requirement is a person who is compassionate and cares about people, that person can then be trained without needing to incur huge debts going through university. A lot of the problem has been driven by greed, look at property developers who have pushed quality into the gutter and deskilled the building industry to maximise profits, did not want skilled electricians because they are expensive and so now we have the watered down domestic electrician. Plumbing has also gone the same way, taking out the skills of pipe bending and soldering by using plastic pipe and pushfit connectors so now they can employ monkeys. When you look at the auto industry that has also gone down the money spining route, now we have a system failure light that allows a garage to charge you just to perform the diagnostic's and give you a rough idea of the possible fault without any Certainty of a first time fix, a nice open ended income. Diesels used to be so basic and run for hundreds of thousands of miles with nothing more than a single wire to the injection pump, all gone and now more complicated than the petrol version with a programable control system that determines everything, now just a single bad connection can bring the engine to a halt and an expensive repair bill. Then for more stupdity, the rise of the three cylinder engine that has a lifespan along the lines of a chocolate bar left out in the sun, my local garage see's many with head failure and struggling to reach the 100K mile mark.
Cookers are also as said becoming overly complicated when in reality they are just a box containing a controlled heat source, now we have touch controls and Wifi to do something people have been doing for thousands of years. Once you introduce firmware into the system you now have issues with fault finding and often board replacement is an easy option, all you can really do is to look at any input signals and check to see if there is an output but without knowing the exact logic within then you can never be sure of how the item functions.

But would you rather run a Morris 1000?

 

[XTiffy]

Back in the day, three day week and all that. I was sharing a house with three others who each had cars, I had bought a cheap Morris Minor as a second car (fuel was a problem for my TR5) and one frosty morning the only car that would start was the moggy. So yes, for reliablity I would be happy with a Morris Minor!

 

[Spectric]

But would you rather run a Morris 1000?

Maybe not one of them, but there are plenty of other choices, the one thing in all of their favour is simplicity and the ability for an average person to keep them running. Do you think the military are using vehicles that are as sophisticated as our cars, can you imagine breaking down in a warzone and having to get complicated diagnostic tools out to try and fix it before you are taken out, all they need is simple pump line nozzle injection and as little engine wiring as possible.

 

[Jacob]

Maybe not one of them, but there are plenty of other choices, the one thing in all of their favour is simplicity and the ability for an average person to keep them running. Do you think the military are using vehicles that are as sophisticated as our cars, can you imagine breaking down in a warzone and having to get complicated diagnostic tools out to try and fix it before you are taken out, all they need is simple pump line nozzle injection and as little engine wiring as possible.

I agree in general but have to say modern cars are definitely much more reliable, have much higher mpg, and probably relatively cheaper to get fixed , in spite of the complexities which are beyond DIY.

 

[Spectric]

I think the most obvious difference between modern cars and the older ones is corrosion, welding was such a common requirement needed for getting the MOT, cover sills, top plates and battery trays to name a few but on the other hand maybe that is why we had so many more good welders around as they cut there teeth on rusty Fords and Leylands !

 

[paulrbarnard]

When deciding on the best vehicle you should let your dog decide. My wife has an XC40 and I have a Landrover Defender 300Tdi. The dogs leap enthusiastically into the back of the Defender but need to be ‘encouraged’ in to the back of the XC40. Dogs have good taste in motor vehicles.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

In my teens I owned1960s tech - Anglias, Heralds, Imps, Vivas etc. I could fix just about anything with a basic Halfords tool kit. Rarely would a few weeks go by without a visit to a breakers yard.

In 1960s wing mirrors and heaters were an optional extra. A Haynes wiring diagram tan to one page. Very simple, rust prone, unreliable. Decoke every 10k, clutch every 20-30k, recon engine by 60k.

Over the last 15 years I have owned cars typically been kept for 100k+ and 3-6 years - not a brand new machine every 3 years. With most modern conveniences. Total spent over the last 15 years on non-service items is about £300 - £20 pa.

I have probably been fortunate, but modern tech has massively improved cars. I do not reflect on how much better it was when I could diagnose and fix them. I am just relieved that the days of lying on cold oil stained concrete looking up at recalcitrant rusty nuts and chassis are well and truly past.

 

[rogxwhit]

I am just relieved that the days of lying on cold oil stained concrete looking up at recalcitrant rusty nuts and chassis are well and truly past.

Ah, but how character-building it all was ...

 

[clogs]

how many NEWER cars are in the junk yard with maj electronic problems.....?
either to expensive to fix or NOBODY KNOWS.....
I'll stick with the oldens thank u.....

I bought a crashed Morris Marina van when they were new.......
Changed the 1.3 petrol engine for a 1.5 BMC diesel.....kept the van for 10 years'ish and over 400,000miles....
it was the rust that killed it.....the engine I fitted it to a narrow boat.....

 

[Spectric]

I do not reflect on how much better it was when I could diagnose and fix them. I am just relieved that the days of lying on cold oil stained concrete looking up at recalcitrant rusty nuts and chassis are well and truly past.

Thats an age thing along with the fact that in later life you can afford to pay someone else to do the work. We do have a lot of vehicles now that become beyond economic repair when still relatively young, a shame because they have not suffered the corrosion of the past and don't look like scrap but something like a module failure can just be to much cost, they have become almost throwaway.

 

[Jacob]

Looks like relay has burned out and now is permanently switched on. Should be repairable by replacing that white rectangle to a new one. Or better yet to replace them all, not to have more problems soon again.

My oven had similar problem. One relay was was leaking current when switched on and caused circuit breakers to go off. Exactly matching parts were only on AliExpress which is doubtful source. Found suitable replacement relay on Mouser from Omron. Just have to match coil voltage, switching current rate and body/pins sizes. Here is for example a datasheet for the one that I can see on the picture: HF152FD/012-1H HONGFA RELAY

I would also replace all electrolitic capacitors on that board, also just in case. As these don't live long and the first candidates to be replaced on decades old devices.

And clean the board with something like IPA (isopropylalkohol).

Don't forget to turn off circuit breaker before disconnecting the oven from the mains. Make pictures before disconnecting everything. Or better yet a video that shows things under different angles. You need some dissoldering pump or hot air to remove those relay. Probably better to find someone who is more confident in this type of job if you have second thoughts.

As to your question, yes, you can probably use it as is if you disconnect one wire that goes from this board to heating element that is always on. Heating elements usually have some detachable connectors on them. Make sure you isolate the connector with electric tape and fix it to something so that it doesn't touch metal on metal anything. The reason why it should be safe is relays on ovens usually wired independently and have one wire in, one wire out. This is how they manage to be some kWatts of power and yet not to use heavy gauge cables but a lot of relatively small ones (1.5 or 2.5 mm2).

I wire all my kitchen myself and also repair them myself if needed. Expensive appliances are usually also better repairable. My father is EE and electronics was always my hobby. Saved a lot of thousands of euro this year (an oven, a washing machine, a tumb drier, a dishwasher, a gas water heater, an ADSL modem and a PC mainboard). All became broken one way or another after 9 years since we moved to our current apartment and bought them all brand new... amazing year.

Local man called and said not for him. Expensive new parts might fail if there are faults elsewhere.
SMEG are supposed to be calling back but doesn't look good - they get bad reviews for service - "parts from Italy...." etc.
Looks like a write off.
Might buy new Hotpoint and see about extended guarantee. John Lewis get good reviews.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Local man called and said not for him. Expensive new parts might fail if there are faults elsewhere.
SMEG are supposed to be calling back but doesn't look good - they get bad reviews for service - "parts from Italy...." etc.
Looks like a write off.
Might buy new Hotpoint and see about extended guarantee. John Lewis get good reviews.

I've repaired a number of cookers and fridges over the years. I tend to find most parts are available from companies like espares
It is worth taking a look at the cost of a replacement board. If it is not expensive it is probably worth a punt on swapping it out.

 

[Jacob]

I've repaired a number of cookers and fridges over the years. I tend to find most parts are available from companies like espares
It is worth taking a look at the cost of a replacement board. If it is not expensive it is probably worth a punt on swapping it out.

Rightho ta will have a look.
Also looking at induction hob and separate oven options - so if one fails the other still OK.
IKEA gets good "Which" report, and cheap.

 

[Jacob]

I've repaired a number of cookers and fridges over the years. I tend to find most parts are available from companies like espares
It is worth taking a look at the cost of a replacement board. If it is not expensive it is probably worth a punt on swapping it out.

Brilliant Espares have the board at £275!
Is there a risk that something else could have caused it to blow, e.g. faulty switch or something?

 

[paulrbarnard]

Brilliant Espares have the board at £275!
Is there a risk that something else could have caused it to blow, e.g. faulty switch or something?

Given how these things are designed there isn't too much that can cause this type of problem. A shorted element would be the most likely thing to cause a cascade failure like you had with the burnt out relay (burnt out tends to indicate it might have been carrying more current than it was designed for). We know your element is likely to be OK because the oven was getting hot and just not turning off. If you have a multi meter you can check the resistance of the element to get an idea of it being OK. After that check the temperature knob is doing it's thing. It is probably a variable resistor with some switches on the back of it. The only other item that could be faulty is the thermostat and again you can measure that and see if it has resistance. You can check these things before ordering a replacement board just in case. Of course do all that with the power disconnected...

 

[thikone]

Local man called and said not for him. Expensive new parts might fail if there are faults elsewhere.
SMEG are supposed to be calling back but doesn't look good - they get bad reviews for service - "parts from Italy...." etc.
Looks like a write off.
Might buy new Hotpoint and see about extended guarantee. John Lewis get good reviews.

Well, looking at your pictures I see that it is very likely repairable by just replacing those relays. I've seen this with my oven. They do fail by burning out. When they switch load all kind of nasty things occur, sparks, arcs and such.

There are, of course, situations when the chances are slim. For example, some liquid damage can be fatal, as some small components might pop off the board and chips might get destroyed. Don't see it here.

And relays are not expensive. They can be had for 10 EUR like 5 of them here. He clearly doesn't know what he is talking about or he doesn't do it or doesn't want to...

Sometimes it is possible to find complete board replacement. But they usually cost over 100 EUR. Like here:
PCB
Oven Main Control Module

If you cannot find anybody brave enough to do it then maybe send the board to me. It is better to repair than produce waste in my opinion.