advise needed on make up of table top.

[hawkeye48]

I sort of know the answer but would just like some confirmation.

I am making a table out of oak, the table top will be 2 1/2 wide strips tongue and groove fitting. This will be surrounded with a frame i suppose. When i glus this up i was just going to glue the joints of the frame not the tongue and groove strips.
My feeling is that to have all the joint glued it will pull itself apart. I have hear of letting the wood come and go, expand and contract. Is this right.
Hope this makes sense.

 

[joiner_sim]

Hmmm.... I think I understand your question. So I'll try and answer it for you, however I'm no expert, I'm only going on what I did on my coffee table project (which you will find on my website with wip pictures).

I would glue your main top together, the t&g will allow the timber to move together while still being solid, glued and joined. The outer frame of the top is where I'm not so sure about. The part of the frame that will run with thew grain of your main top could be glued and T&G as it should work in the same way as I stated above. However the ends which will run the opposite direction to the grain of the main top is where I'm really not so sure about. I think you'd have to approach it in the same way as you would with breaboard ends - I have no knowledge of that so, either hang about for someone else on the forum to advise, or do a search on the forums/ google for info.

Hope that helps.

 

[stev]

If you want to make the table top with a perimeter frame surrounding a panel of T&G boards I would suggest you don't glue the T&G along their length.

If you glue the T&G boards to each other they will expand and contract as a unit behaving as if they were one wide board so the amount by which the overall dimension changes will be quite significant (I was taught to allow for plus or minus 1% of the width). If you keep all the T&G seperate and apply just a dab of glue in the groove of the frame to hold the ends of each board they will all be allowed to expand and contract individually without wandering about in the frame.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Sawyer]

You're already on the right lines, Hawkeye. If the outside frame has long grain ends, gluing the T&G together will be asking for trouble.

An alternative could be breadboard ends allowing you to glue the main boards and dispense with the long sides of the frame. In this case, it's essential to allow movement in the breadboard ends - otherwise expect the top to split. Rather than gluing the ends, you could fasten them to the ends with pegged tenons, but drill the peg holes through the mortices of the breadboard ends first; assemble and cramp up, then mark the position of the peg holes on the tenons (though the existing holes in the breadboard ends); disassemble and drill the holes in the tenons, very slightly nearer the shoulder than your marks (this pulls the joint up really tight) then make them slightly wider across the grain to allow movement (a round file is good for this); re-assemble and peg the joints.

This will look a bit Arts & Crafts, so it depends whether or not you like the style. The problem with breadboard ends is that apart from when you have just cleaned the job up, the ends will almost never be flush with the sides due to constant movement in the timber.

 

[MickCheese]

Where is this table going to be situated?

Why are you using T&G?

For a framed top have you considered a veneered man made board?

Mick

 

[hawkeye48]

Ah a lot of info, good.

I want the frame around the table top as i am copying and existing table that belonged to my Wife's mother. The original is pine i thing but in very poor condition. It has horriblr legs (i think) great big bulbus round things. I am making them square so the whole thing looks more angular.

I have chosen to make the main table from 2 to 2 1/2 in wide oak so as to keep the expansion and contraction across the table to a minimum. I dont get much choice about the lengths but these will be under three feet in lenght.

The table will be in out main living/dining room. Not sure of the humidity but i should think it will be pretty dry. I know it will change with the seasons though.

I don't want to go with the breadboard option for the reasons stated above.

I was thinking of gluing the outer frame ends and as you say a dab of glue on the ends of the long lengths inside the frame.

A couple of the ansewers have me a little confused. I will knocke up a sketch indicating where i was thinking the glued joints should be. I will post it early next week.


Thanks for all the replies it is much appriciated

 

[hawkeye48]

Below is a very rough sketch, i was goinf to fully glue the frame end, a dab on each of the inner length at each end.

The sketch was done on my laptop using the pad, it was a right pain



http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd445/Hawkeyefxr/table.jpg

 

[Racers]

Hi, hawkeye48

Its not a method of construction I would use, you will either have to allow a gap between each plank which will fill up with food or run the risk of the whole top being torn apart.

Use veneered MDF for the middle and solid oak for the frame.

Breadboard ends have been used for centurys because they work.


Pete

 

[Sawyer]

Hi, hawkeye48

Its not a method of construction I would use, you will either have to allow a gap between each plank which will fill up with food or run the risk of the whole top being torn apart.

Me neither. Your're guaranteed to get gaps, unless you use exceptionally dry timber: but then the boards swell instead, probably causing the the whole thing to warp, or even disintegrate. In case veneered MDF doesn't appeal, I agree with Pete; breadboard ends would work well with the slight step at the ends that I mentioned in my last post being less unsightly than a series of gaps the whole length of the top.

Or you could go for a solid top, all glued with no end cleats and the end grain showing. If carefully done, it'll look nice. If you go for that option though make sure you allow for movement in your fixing between top and underframe. Buttons or shrinkage plates would do the trick.

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Yep, solid top would look good, here's one in teak.

Pete

 

[hawkeye48]

The solid top does look good, nice and clean looking.
What are buttons or shrinkage plates ??

 

[AlexaVega]

It is very obvious that the wood will expand in some days. But if you are using a good quality of wood like oak or pine then it will help to be better table top. Also, apply a some anti bug solution on wood.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Hawkeye

Shrinkage plates are these http://www.woodfit.com/product_info.php ... cts_id=256
you use the slotted holes to allow the top to expand and contract.

Buttons a small wooden blocks with a tongue on that fits into a slot cut in the rails they do the same thing as the plates but look much better.

Pete