Advice on wooden sign please

[MikeJ]

Hello people,

I'm in need of some advice. I've been asked to make a wooden sign for my mother's retirement cottages.

There is a block of granite which is 80 x 48cm for the sign to be mounted on.

I've got some air dried oak which can be used, but I'm not sure if that is going to be a wise choice as I believe oak to be prone to move and split. The sign is going to need to be at least 30cm wide to fit everything on that needs to be there and probably 60-70cm long. I'm thinking to build up the width from 4 or 5 pieces and rub jointed together, probably with 3 biscuits to help with alignment and strength.

I'm intending to carve the lettering into the plank and then paint the letters black, then finish with several coats of something! Being in the south-west we get plenty of rain, it is to be sited under a large tree so shouldn't get too much direct sun!

I'd appreciate you opinions on:
Choice of wood
Glue for joints
Best weather resistant finish
Method of fixing to granite

Thanks in advance for the advice. I intend to take some pics as this happens, so you'll get to see the results .... eventually

Mike

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi Mike,

Best of luck with your project. I think your choice of wood should be fine, Oak has to be first choice for attractive outdoor stuff. The fact that it's air dried should mean it'll be more stable so I shouldn't worry overly about that. Any wood left outside will get some cracks and loose it's nice colour eventually.

Your joint, I would use cramps to make sure you get a good strong joint, the biscuits will help though. The only thing to remember is if you are carving, your biscuits need to be at the right level not to get carved into!!! Any external qulatity PVA type glue would be fine.

The finish is a tricky one. I would favour Oil for looks but it will need re-applying annually to keep it looking the best. Others may be able suggest other options.

Fixing to granite, I would either use something like Silicon sealant which will allow the wood to move against the hard Granite or possibly some well positioned screws, although I don't know the feasability of drilling Granite????

I hope this is of some help. I look forward to seeing your WIP!

Cheers

Richard

P.S I made a sign a while back, rather different from yours but may be worth a look? : https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...lot-of-turning-t42699.html?highlight=signpost

 

[joiner_sim]

Hi there,
Been meaning to reply to this for a day or so, but only been on my mobile until now, so heres what I think.

Your choice of wood is fine.

I would recommend cascamite for the glue, its suitable for marine applications! Also known and probably sold as RESINTITE, under the ever build brand name.

The finish, I would have a look at the range of SADOLIN coatings available, they are meant to be pretty good for outdoors.

Cannot really recommend a fixing to the granite. I used something the other week that was in a special silicon type cartridge. As you squeeze out the stuff in the cartridge, it mixes with a speedset in the nozzle and it goes off like concrete within minutes! Unfortunatley that also means the cartridge is wasted at the same time if its not all used, and as its supposed to be expensive then, it might not be the best option!?!?

Hope that helps for you.

 

[Matt_S]

I work in the signs business... although normally all metal and plastic! I have worked with oak and slate before though it was a slate panel joined to an oak totem. The way we did that was to drill the slate, glue plastic rods in and then glue this into corresponding holes in the oak. Used two holes which were pretty near the middle and it's all still joined couple of years later!

 

[OPJ]

Osmo do a UV oil that's supposed to be excellent as an exterior finish. You can also buy it from Smith & Roger and now Rutllands, I think. I've had some on my signs for only a month so far (two-years ago, I initially used yacht varnish but, it didn't last very long... ).

There's some more information, here.

 

[xy mosian]

Oak is known to leach tanin sometimes, even through oil finishes I'm told. If this happens will it stain the granite surface?
xy

 

[MikeJ]

Thanks for the answers and suggestions.

Looks like I'm going to go ahead with the oak.

As far as the glue goes, I've used both Cascamite and PVA in the past, though I do need to get some new. My current PVA is ?? years old and the Cascamite even older!

I'd wondered about an oil fiinish, I've been disappointed with the yacht varnish which I used to smarten up another house sign, it started to blister and flake after only a winter and summer. The Osmo looks a good option - not so sure about the price though! Ah well, I'm just a cheapskate!

As for the fixing, drilling the granite is a definite no no, I've often hit a granite rock in the traditional stone walls used in houses down here and a hand drill (set to hammer and a new masonary bit) just goes nowhere. So some sort of silicon is looking favourite so far.

Thanks for the reminder about the depth of biscuits, Richard. I once fielded a panel that I'd biscuited, I was not best pleased after the router found the biscuits!

XY, think I'll worry about any stains if they happen, I don't think much will touch granite.

All being well I may be able to make a start at preparing the wood at the weekend.

Once again thanks for the advice.

 

[Ross K]

I make a lot of outdoor oak furniture and house signs, also in air dried oak. In addition to being a cabinetmaker I've had 20 years in the yacht coatings industry so I know a bit about this subject.

Putting any sort of coating on oak is an unneccesary waste of time.

Oils are fine but will need to be reapplied and will pick up dirt, eventually going dirty and at worst black. "High tech" (eg Sikkens, Osmo) coatings are invariably designed to be used on sub 18% moisture content timber (and they will flake off if it's above this) or if they are not they are most usually tinted with iron oxide pigment. This makes them UV resistant but in my view spoils the natural look of oak and you still need to maintain/recoat them.

Natural unfinished oak ages gracefully to a silver finish not unlike teak or iroko. It will stay looking great for many decades with no finish whatsoever.

So my advice is don't coat it with anything, you're wasting your time as it adds nothing but cost, future maintenance and ugly deterioration.

Having said all that many of you will still be tempted to use some oil or whatever. I used to do this with my outdoor furniture. The temptation is almost irresistable as it looks great immediately after oiling but I learnt the hard way (with unhappy customers) that it's best to resist for the reasons stated.

 

[OPJ]

I'd wondered about an oil fiinish, I've been disappointed with the yacht varnish which I used to smarten up another house sign, it started to blister and flake after only a winter and summer. The Osmo looks a good option - not so sure about the price though! Ah well, I'm just a cheapskate!

If you were closer, I'd offer to give you a small amount, as I know I'm never going to use the full 2.5lt I bought last year! Although, if you're still interested, I could probably sell you a small amount in a jar or something, for a small fee?

Ross makes several excellent points. This Osmo UV oil will give the oak a slightly 'orange' look; as will most other oil finishes.

Glue-wise, as it's not going to be submerged in water, you should be fine with any exterior grade PVA. Titebond II seems to be a favourite around here though, any exterior PVA (Evo-Stick, etc.) should do. You could add biscuits or wooden splines to reinforce the joints and reduce the risk of them opening up. Cascamite is also creep-resistance but, while some rate it for exterior applications; others don't! :roll: It can be very brittle.

 

[laird]

Whilst I wouldn't put a finish on the oak (for the reasons already stated) I have to query your problems with yacht varnish. Did you put it on cold?, or ontop of another finish? I've only seen polyurethene varnish flake when properly applied, never yacht varnish.