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AAAARGHHHH!!! - Rust is the devil's invention....

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Shady

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OK Folks: what's your preferred rust prevention routine. As winter approaches in our green and pleasant land (ie, extremely and constantly damp atmosphere...) I've just had a happy Sunday removing traces of rust from:
  • One Planer thicknesser
  • One bandsaw table
  • One drill press
  • Two Veritas block planes

My current regime is, provided the damn stuff is caught early enough, scrub with jenolite soaked steel wool (eg phosphoric acid) until all gone, and then wipe on a really thick coat of liberon lube wax. Buff an hour or so later. It works, but sometimes leaves irritating 'mottling' where the jenolite dries out on the steel. At this point I shift to autosol metal polish to try and remove the mottling, and then re-wax...

I always laugh at lines like Kevin Ley's "a damp workshop is a non-starter, get another"... Yeah right mate: 90 % of UK woodworkers are in a workshop which is, essentially, in equilibrium with the external atmosphere (my garage door has a 1/2" gap all the way round...) A corrosive atmosphere is a fact of life in the UK, and I can't emigrate to Nevada just now... So, let's hear it: what do you do to minimise the dreaded red stain....?

(Edit: and what really annoys me is that the protection level seems inconsistent: my jack plane has no trace of rust some 4 months after I last 'protected' it - the Veritas blocks were treated 2 weeks ago, and the darn stuff grew by the minute...)
 

Philly

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Shady,
Yeah, know where your coming from...... :?
Have just bought a de-humidifier to try and combat moisture/rust problem (and to keep the timber dry of course!). Operation Insulation is just about to begin as well. Just need bottemless pockets now to complete the triple sized workshop with lots of windows, central heating/air con, underfloor heating, jacuzzi, etc, etc.... :lol: :lol: 8)
cheers
Philly :D
 

Alf

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Simple. Have four boxes full of already rusty tools and the new rust just naturally gravitates to it too.

Well for some reason it works for me. :oops:

Cynical galoots suggest hanging onto all the new Stanley plane irons you can get, as they also seem to be a natural rust magnet.

Oh, all right then, I'll be serious. :roll:

I zap the ruddy stuff with wet 'n' dry and paraffin, then hand tools get Liberon Black Bison (simply 'cos it's what I have) while the <cough> machines get Lubo wax. As the latter go rather a long time between uses that lasts pretty well. I don't buff the Lubo wax incidentally; maybe that helps? Are you supposed too? :shock: (Note to self; read the tin sometime).

Hmm, drill press table eh? I wonder what's going on under my wooden auxillary table; never thought of that... :? I've also had the inconsistant rust problem. My L-N #164 is a martyr to it, much to my shame, as is my dad's Stanley #4. I won't say what hasn't suffered in case the gods are reading and decide to punish me for my temerity. :roll:

Cheers, Alf
 

gidon

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Shady

I bought a dehumidifer (£80 from B&Q) a year or so ago and haven't looked back. Even in my draughty workshop I no longer get any rust.


Cheers

Gidon
 

Shady

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Hmmm, thanks guys and gals: I looked at dehumidifiers, but assumed that the relatively huge gaps/holes, and my love of keeping ventilation open when gluing/painting/shellacing etc, would render them simply an expensive way of removing moisture from a constant stream of Oxfordshire's air passing through the garage...

Maybe I'll take that idea a bit further and give it a try this winter and see. I'm also wondering about those 'pipe heaters' that I can fix to the walls. I've avoided a woodburning stove so far, much as I like the 'environmental' aspect of using scraps for my heat, because I seem to remember that one of the by-products of burning wood is (nice and warm) water vapour - which is the last thing I want in the 'shop...

Thank God it's not just me though...
 

DaveL

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Shady":1qym6is8 said:
I've avoided a woodburning stove so far, much as I like the 'environmental' aspect of using scraps for my heat, because I seem to remember that one of the by-products of burning wood is (nice and warm) water vapour - which is the last thing I want in the 'shop...
Hopefully you would have a flue on a wood burner and the water vapour will be leaving via it along with the other combustion products :shock:

I have a wood burner and its a good way of getting rid of the shavings from preparing stock. In fact I am looking forward to firing it up as I now have 5 large sacks of shaving and saw dust and the dust bin on the cyclone is almost full. :roll: as well as a large pile of offcuts and failed bits of projects. :oops:

I bought a dehumidifier from Wicks, one thing to check is that there is a constant drain outlet for a pipe to carry the water away. Without it the unit will shut down when the tank is full, bit of a bummer when your not there for a few days. :x
 

Midnight

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ummmm.... rust..??.. whatz 'at...????

I use Camelia Oil... what can I say.......it works....
 

johnelliott

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I can understand the desire for good ventilation, but if you don't block the holes up and get a dehumidifier then you are going to be fighting a losing battle. As well as the tools where the rust can be easily seen, a dehumidifier will protect the machinery parts that may otherwise get pitted
John
 

Bean

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I too have a garage with lots of fresh air passing through it, but I am fortunate to have a dry one, with no rust problems. It may not just be the garage it could be you :shock:

Does the rust start where you handle/hold the tools, if so you may have what are called in the engineering trade as rusty fingers! ie a lot of moisture on yer digits, course there no cure...........But i do run a retirement home for any kit that needs a rest from being so active on the rust front. :wink:


Bean
 

Shady

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Sorry midnight: I have buckets of the stuff, and I'm completely underwhelmed by its 'rust preventing skills'. It's non-toxic, it doesn't stain or mark, and it has no significant odour - but probably because of all of the above, it's about as much use in serious rust prevention as dunking my tools in a bucket of warm water.... I'm after some sort of evil chemical death ray who's only purpose in life is to kill rust dead, and to hell with all other compromises.

So far, phosphoric acid is 'the man', but I'd like to avoid the staining/etching that accompanies it...

Camellia could actually sit quite happily in the thread in 'buying advice' about 'disappointing tools' for me... I'm sure it's great for a samurai sword in constant wipe down mode, but for a proper British Winter with the moisture dripping off the roof, it's pants... All it does for me is deceive me into thinking that because there's an oily film on my tools, they won't rust... 24 hours later - bingo... Eastern mysticism replaced by Western Ferrous Oxide. Japanese poofs.... :?
 

Shady

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Bean, yes I do have 'rusty fingers', and I'm prepared to adapt to that... But it's the overall bleedin 'rustomatic' effect of the environment that gets to me after a while... :( My L-N large shoulder gets rust in quite evident fingerprints where I hold it - but at the same time, the rest has a creeping haze on it...)

John: I actually must live quite near you: I think, in pure desperation, given the tone of these replies, that I may investigate a dehumidifier. The alternative I was considering was a seriously well made tool box for my 'prized' handtools, with as many 'VCI' papers and emitters as I could cram in - but that would still leave the machinery vulnerable.

A follow up: how often do people 'treat' their tools, with whatever regime they use? I'm no novice - jeez, I spent 18 years in the military keeping my kit rust free in everything from desert to alpine snow, but I just don't get the sense that everyone else spends as much time as I do fighting the red terror... If you asked, I'd estimate that I spend as much time in tool 'anti-rust maintenance' as I do in woodworking. If we all do, well fine, but I don't get that impression from other people's posts.
 

Philly

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Shady
I wipe down all used hand tools at the end of a session with a camelia oil filled cloth. I find that if the tool has any traces of rust they will "grow" under the oil. My L=N block plane is the worst offender-it will rust if you look at it. Paste wax seems to last longer, with rub downs in between.
Some tools seem more succeptible than others.
But if you see rust-rub it out before oiling. It's the only way.
regards
Philly :D
 

Bean

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Shady
Do you polish your tools? If so you could be inadvertantly creating your own downfall, after polishing a bare metal suface the surface is 'active' ie it will rust very quickly. Just a thought as its a problem I have at work.


Bean
 

Shady

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Philly, Bean, thanks for the thoughts: Philly, intrigued that your L-N is the same: I wonder if it's a particular steel they used to make them? I have given up wiping down with camellia - as you say, and I hinted above, I find that rust just creeps on underneath - it is simply not an effective rust inhibitor for me...

Bean: I guess it depends how you define polish: I try, with Liberon wax, not to do so: I'll slap it on, let it haze, and aim to 'buff' the tool the next day.

There are various views on all the US forums: people talk about buffing the wax into the metal with power sanders, they swear by 'old gaffer's peculiar rust killer' (which is, of course, totally unobtainable over here, etc etc etc...)
I begin to suspect that there's no definitive answer. I may just look at turning my garage into a 'chemical warfare safe' bunker with sealers/draught excluders (useful if Al quaeda ever hit darkest Oxfordshire... :?), put some serious dehumidification and heating in, and build a 'hot wax bath' to keep all tools in.. Then of course, it'll burn down one night... :D :D
 

Midnight

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Shady... I honestly doubt your humidity can be any worse than mine... think about it... I'm in Aberdeen....

Each and every one of my L-N's are in as new condition; the only time I've needed to take scotch brite to any of em has been to polish out the accidental dings... never had a rust prob...

I'm guessing that the only major difference is... my shop's heated and air tight... god knows I sweat plenty when working with the planes...
 

Shady

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Yup: conclusion appears to be seal the shop up tight and heat/dry it... I just hate that 'hermetic' effect. Not to mention it's probably cheaper, all up, to emigrate somewhere hot.... 'Timbucktoo timberworking', anyone?
 
A

Anonymous

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I'm with Mike

Camelia oil stops rust and doesn't mark the wood when working it.

Axminster stock it
 

Midnight

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couldn't be easier to apply neither... wayyyyyyy safer than that acid mess...

Best bet is to prevent any getting there in the first place... wax any high wear surfaces... spray the rest every time you use / store the tool...
 

Shady

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OK folks, as I'm notionally a scientist nowadays, I feel a little experiment coming on.... Since we all obviously have our own regimes for combatting the darn stuff, I'm going to order some sheet/strip stock, grind to absolutely fresh metal, and then take 'a photo a day' after treating different bits in different ways. At the moment I plan on 3 sets: one will be 'untouched by human hands' and just sit in a corner of the garage, one will have some nice thumbprints on it before treatment, and one will have thumbprints after treating.

So, any regimes anyone wants to try in addition to the following?:

  • Bare metal (the 'control', to get scientific :) )
    Camellia oil
    Phosphoric acid (aka Jenolite)
    Liberon paste wax (buffed and unbuffed)
    WD 40
    Axminster 'XMP spray'
    light machine oil ('3 in1')
    acid followed by wax
    acid followed by camellia oil
    acid followed by wd 40
    acid followed by XMP
 
A

Anonymous

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Shady

This test was carried out in one of the woodworking mags very recently - I think Popular WW or Fine WW
 
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